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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#601

Post by amanaplanacanal »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #80
mmustapic wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ For we each of us deserve everything, every luxury that was ever piled in the tombs of the dead kings, and we each of us deserve nothing, not a mouthful of bread in hunger. Have we not eaten while another starved? Will you punish us for that? Will you reward us for the virtue of starving while others ate? No man earns punishment, no man earns reward. Free your mind of the idea of deserving, the idea of earning, and…

Meh, tell it to Darwin. Heat death will come for us all in the end, and there is no refuge to be found in our navels. Why accelerate it by embracing mediocrity? We should identify talent, reward it, and do the best we can with what we have, while we can. The part about "identifying talent" is where people seem to lose the plot, unfortunately.

It's much easier and more satisfying to give opportunities to family and friends, so that's what we do.

The current US administration has gone all-in on this idea. Not an actual merit hire in the bunch.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#602

Post by CamperBob2 »

unicornporn wrote: post #586
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. So how could one design a political system so this behavior doesn't emerge / is not incentivized?

How about not creating a precarious underclass with lack of (higher) education that is ready to vote for whatever solution promising to take down the system that made them so desperate for radical change?

I don't really buy the education argument. How do you "educate" somebody who lived through the first Trump administration and voted for more of the same? Let's get specific: what exactly did they miss in school that would have driven them towards a different decision?

At some point it's necessary to confront the uncomfortable truth: stupid people are easy for smart, ill-intentioned people to herd, which gives the latter a leg up in any democratic election.

This bug in democracy was there in the beginning. But it's only now, 2500 years later, that it can be exploited effectively enough to invalidate the whole concept.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#604

Post by credit_guy »

thinkindie wrote: post #148

At least Berlusconi didn't have access to nuclear warheads. Seriously, I visited the US few times between 2005 and 2010 and each time people were raising the topic of Berlusconi. How can you have a president like that, who voted for him, bunga bunga etc etc. Now you know how you can have such personality in power too. With even more power.

> How can you have a president like that

Did people really think that Berlusconi was the president of Italy?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#606

Post by sethammons »

ETH_start wrote: post #596
sethammons wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. What do you think about Hegseth's signal and atlantic reporter issue? That is wildly worse and where is the court case that absolutely should be happening?

That's nothing. Compare that to deleting 30,000 emails to avoid them being scrutinized in an investigation.

You think Hegseth's use of Signal is nothing. Gotcha. Rules for thee but not for me.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#607

Post by Propelloni »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #602
unicornporn wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about not creating a precarious underclass with lack of (higher) education that is ready to vote for whatever solution promising to take down the system that made them so desperate for radical change?

I don't really buy the education argument. How do you "educate" somebody who lived through the first Trump administration and voted for more of the same? Let's get specific: what exactly did they miss in school that would have driven them towards a different decision? At some point it's necessary to confront the uncomfortable truth: stupid people are easy for smart, ill-intentioned people to herd, which gives the lat…

They missed that liberty and freedom is not a god-given right, but hard-earned privilege. They missed that liberty is not a personal property but a shared practice of pluralism. They missed that liberty is not absolute, but requires compromise and limitations so that we all can be free.

To be fair, those are not things that are taught in school. If they come up at all it is in some historical context, a battle someone else fought--and won. There is no mention that maintaining a liberal democracy requires effort and vigilance. Modern, ie. post-WW2, "fighting democracies" have built-in safeguards to oppose internal enemies of democracy, but if they are effective remains to be seen. The USA mostly does not even have such mechanisms and it shows.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#610

Post by roryirvine »

avaika wrote: post #587
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. So how could one design a political system so this behavior doesn't emerge / is not incentivized?

In no way this is a good example of such a system, but I still find Bosnia and Herzegovina political system absolutely hilarious. After Dayton peace agreement the literally put ethnicity requirement for presidents to Constitution as a hard rule. One Bosnian, one Serb and one Croatian. And yes, the country is ran by 3 presidents at the same time. So there is no longer a competition whether the main guy in the country…

Northern Ireland has a similar system, with an executive built on a forced coalition.

The executive is led by a First Minister and Deputy First Minister (despite the difference in title, they have exactly equal powers), who are selected from the largest party representing each of the two main communities.

Major decisions require cross-community support - at least 50% of all those voting AND 50% of the representatives of each of the two communities, OR 60% of all those voting AND 40% of the representatives of each of the two communities.

On paper, it seems slightly absurd... but in practice, it's a reasonable way to deal with deeply divided societies.

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