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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#531

Post by Scea91 »

herewulf wrote: post #502
pantalaimon wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.

Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.

> WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it.

Not true, while Germany was not solely responsible, it and Austria-Hungary were much more responsible than others.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#532

Post by DoctorOW »

herewulf wrote: post #502
pantalaimon wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.

Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.

For many reasons (including the ones above) it's difficult for any institution within reach of the US government to analyze how the alt-right took power but from what I can tell the US economy is in a slow burn. It's been receiving patches roughly once a presidency but it turns out you can't combine a lot of short term solutions to make a long term one. Fixing the economy would require bold decisions and the parties took two different directions. The Republican party realized that any bold policy would get votes regardless of any other factor including coherency. This is why Trump supporters, when asked about their logic usually give some form of "things are bad, and they didn't used to be".

To summarize, there are competing ideas for what got us here, but I think it was less of a real inciting event like WW1 and more of a breaking point that was eventually reached.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#533

Post by andyjohnson0 »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #229
pessimist wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I witnessed this up close in India where parties openly exist to benefit certain constituencies based on caste, language, religion and so on. It is horrifying to see this attitude take root in my a…

> corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 : It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. It’s not an inconsis…

> I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267

I don't know whether Trump can accurately be described as a fascist, but its been clear to me since his first term that domination is the only thing that matters to him. The obscene wealth and the swaggering deceitfulness and the gold-plated bathrooms are just the secondary outcomes of his need to dominate.

Domineering father-figure; raised as a sociopath; given a lot of money. Kind of inevitable.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#534

Post by yubblegum »

the_af wrote: post #107
jmyeet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As per usual, every accusation from a narcissist is a confession. You know who absolutely is connected to Epstein? Elon's brother, Kimbal (allgedly) [1]. And while not related to Epstein but is just gross and in a similar ballpark, Elon's father Errol, had a stepdaughter from his wife's first marriage, Jana Bezuidenhout, who grew up in his house from age 4. He later went on to father two children with Jana (the first…

Didn't know these details about Musk's family. It doesn't surprise me at all that a guy so gross in his personal life comes from a gross family. Everything about Musk is deranged. Do you remember the (not so distant era) when Musk was the nerd's and hacker's darling? SpaceX, his genius, his vision! This was before we knew much about his personal life and opinions. It seems so long ago now... Before he took to Twitter…

> Everything about Musk is deranged.

He's a symptom. It is our society, globally, that has become deranged. Almost all public figures are a shade of scumbag these days. Maybe they always were and there is no longer any reason to hide it.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#535

Post by supriyo-biswas »

ty6853 wrote: post #400
tshaddox wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, it would be neat if corruption were illegal!

Or just more accessible, so the average person can get a piece of the benefits that cartels and megacorp executives already get.

Voila, we've ended up with a low trust society with "petty corruption", which is generally considered harmful as it establishes something about that society that cannot be easily corrected unlike "grand corruption."

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#536

Post by rsynnott »

the_af wrote: post #60
mindslight wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was Elon who heavily implied that Trump was a pedophile, which is an absolutely insane thing to do. How is it insane to repeat what everyone already knows? The only novelty here is Musk himself saying it to his legions of followers, who would have been otherwise inclined to downplay the significance of it.

It's insane because of the implications: Musk was a major contributor to Trump's campaign, and a major advisor, and at the last minute he implies Trump is a pedophile? This means Musk knowingly contributed to get a pedophile elected! He couldn't have learned this at the last minute, he obviously held this ace in his sleeve. This already should "impeach" Musk (informally) in the eyes of his supporters: this is a guy w…

I mean, I would assume that anyone who's still a Musk supporter has no morals to speak of anyway, so I'm not sure why they would be concerned by this implication.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#538

Post by rat87 »

ETH_start wrote: post #523
rat87 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policy difference not partisan squables or payback for supporting his opponents. Most Democrats feel Unions are important to help workers (union and nonunion) earn more.

To base the decision on what companies to invite to an EV summit on whether they support the Democrats' favorite constituents is pure politics. The only policy difference here is one which helps the Democrats win elections.

It's not

Democrats believe that unions help keep wages high and are good for the economy.

If Musk wasn't anti union he probably would have been invited. I say probably because of Teslas issues with racial discrimination

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#540

Post by Barrin92 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #464
JCattheATM wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~40% of the country sees that as strength. Democracies only really work with an educated and altruistic population, and the US is only getting further away from that.

This sounds like an utopian take or a case of "the grass is greener on the other side". Americans believe that Denmark or Switzerland has an educated and altruistic population. But if you talk to a Dane or a Swiss person about politics, they will laugh and tell you that their country is full of evil and stupid idiots, too. I am inclined to agree with Acemoglu that good institutions are more important than virtues of…

>This sounds like an utopian take or a case of "the grass is greener on the other side".

Well, it wasn't. It's a take made by the 2nd president of the United States, John Adams:

"John Adams said, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”[1] Morality and virtue are the foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free. Virtue is an inner commitment and voluntary outward obedience to principles of truth and moral law. Private virtue is the character to govern oneself according to moral law at all times. Public virtue is the character to voluntarily sacrifice or subjugate personal wants for the greater good of other individuals or the community. Specific moral virtues include charity, justice, courage, temperance, reverence, prudence, and honesty"

This is in a sense self evident because any self governing society can only function if its people are equipped with the reason, morality, and temperament to sustain it. Appealing to "good institutions" is tautological. The reason why some places have good institutions and others have bad institutions is precisely because of character of the people who build and maintain them.

https://www.johnadamsacademy.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_I...

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