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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#471

Post by inglor_cz »

slimebot80 wrote: post #448
protocolture wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say is true. That said I think SpaceX is the only service even in the running for said contracts. Nasa doesnt have the capability, and Boeing is quite a way behind. There was already speculation that SpaceX would have to take on Boeings commitments for Artemis.

It's murky. NASA outsources a lot of money to SpaceX because Musk could burn through risk and money at levels NASA would get cancelled for. At what point is SpaceX's benefiting from tax money and NASA technology become a reason to fold into a national asset. China didn't achieve its Great Leap Forward by pandering to wealthy celebrities who cosplay as geniuses.

The Great Leap Forward (1958-62) was an absolute disaster that resulted in widespread famine.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#472

Post by wqaatwt »

wefinh wrote: post #252
clumsysmurf wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 : It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. It’s not an inconsis…

Yeah, only the issue here is that @realFascists are in opposition to Trump. And reading this text in that light - it check out and not really a news. Also, frankly, you folks need to stop monopolizing these topics, based on highly polarized ideological filter, because even before Trump there was dissatisfaction about how Musk monopolized NASA contracts on the promise, that he would deliver more efficient and cheaper…

That’s all very nice but according to Trump this only suddenly became a problem only a few weeks ago due to some reason. So whatever you are saying has absolutely no relevance to this decision making. If Musk continued licking his boots he’d be doing fine..

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#473

Post by inglor_cz »

_heimdall wrote: post #389
wat10000 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not supposed to. It sure looks like it does. Power is more than what the written rules say you can do.

I think you're getting to the distinction between power and authority. Congress may have the authority to decide procurement (I'm not 100% sure on this, going with the discussion), but functionally the president may have the power to force their will through the system.

Congress has been too deferential to executive power for decades.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#474

Post by [deleted] »

jmyeet wrote: post #18

It's wild to me how many conspiracy theories I've seen about how this is all staged, like it's a distraction or it's just Elon repairing his image and trying to rescue Tesla (whose sales are cratering). Psychologically, I think this is reflective of cognitive dissonance. The two conflicting ideas are that two people with much to lose would get in the dumbest fight imaginable and the myth of meritocracy [1]. You see,…

[deleted]

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#475

Post by wqaatwt »

pessimist wrote: post #166
alephnerd wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote banks and patronage politics has always been a thing in the US, especially at the local and state level. The main difference is a significant portion of governance was temporarily de-politicized in the 1960s-90s period as leadership on both sides of the aisle had formative unifying experiences during the World Wars and the Korean War, but has been re-politicized now that activism on both sides of the aisle has r…

Low-level corruption at the local/state level is related but its effects are different though. In fact even today low level corruption in the US is extremely low by global standards - you can't bribe your way to a drivers license openly, for example. I'm sure it happens but it's not common or openly boasted about (parts of CA or DC could be an exception). Here the corruption is openly displayed as a kind of peacock-t…

> you can't bribe your way to a drivers license openly

No but when it comes to local government contracts, building permits and similar stuff its quite different. Also a lot of (what sane people would consider) corruption is legal and institutionalized.

i.e. bribing politicians running for office is perfectly legal and entirely expected by all sides (that Americans are so open about this is quite unique).

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#477

Post by cmurf »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #421
goatlover wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

The delusional conspiracy theory Trump won the 2020 election, in order to justify January 6 violence and then pardoning those criminals as his first act as POTUS redux.

Trump sent a mob to assassinate the vice-president of the United States when he (Mike Pence) refused Trump’s order to overturn that election.

Trump’s longest serving chief of staff said Trump is, A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.

The bigotry of low expectations is thinking people are too stupid to know this, rather than understanding 1/3 are anti-American illiberal shitbirds.

Just because they failed to get it once before doesn’t mean they didn’t try and keep on trying.

A vote for a rapist, a felon, and vile insurrectionist is voting in support of abuse. And now we’re getting abused.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#479

Post by palmfacehn »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #42

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

I'm not sure this is a new phenomenon. Graft has been a part of governance in every era. Typically, pandering to special interests is proportional to the government's slice of the economic pie. As the state interventions increase, so does the ability for bureaus to grant favors.

What is somewhat unique here, is the brazen and flippant nature of the funding cut. I'm sure if we looked, we could find similar cases in US history.

Author Patrick Newman has written on the topic of cronyism in US history. It is interesting to read the historical narrative framed from the perspective of who was lobbying and looting.

Here's a recent lecture on the Marshall Plan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBGo2WbAoPI

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