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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#261
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Things did change on 9/11 but it seemed incremental to me. Before that was the constant investigation of Clinton by Gingrich, the dog whistling of Reagan, Nixon's Southern Strategy, and before that to McCarthy and so on. This is high level rather than your direct experience, so it's not a contradiction. Just a different perspective.

Yes. Almost everything about our current situation can be traced back to Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh. Things were much more civil and reasonable before that point.

I don’t know. Nixon had goons breaking into the DNC headquarters (and his whole southern strategy led to racially polarized politics up to this day), and there was that senator who got beaten by another senator just before the civil war. Eisenhower waited in the car rather than attend a meeting with Truman on his inauguration.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#262
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamala lost because of Biden, who somehow was even less likeable than Hillary by the end.

Biden fucked up in many ways, but he also got a lot of flack from bad timing and poor messaging. It’s easy to say COVID hurt Trump in 20 and Kamala in 24, but I think the details mattered. The inflation rate fell significantly under his presidency, but during periods of high inflation prices soared. Coming back from that after generations of extremely low inflation would have been tough for someone without failing fa…

> coming back from that after generations of extremely low inflation would have been tough for someone without failing facilities

But facing off against someone who was never particularly sharp or articulate. I think it evened the playing field.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#263
If you are familiar with John Lilly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly), you may notice some similarities with Musk. Lilly used/abused ketamine and began to believe in some form of extraterrestrial oversight of earth, something like that. Musk keeps tweeting about "simulation theory", and to me sounds totally deranged. He says he thinks reality is a simulation (batshit imho), and that boring simulations are cancelled, and only exciting ones are allowed to run (by whom..?), stuff like that. He's out of his mind. I am not choosing sides here, and Trump's behaviour is absolutely deplorable (again, imo).

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's naive and you know it. A massive drive for him was electing the first black president. A less, but still not-insignificant drive was for Hillary as the first female president.

Thats your opinion, Obama could have been white, and he still would have been voted for by 99.9% of those who voted for him. Young Kennedy-like candidates are rare (eg Bill Clinton and Barack Obama) but are incredibly electable when they show up. Towards the end of his presidency, most of us forgot he was even black. Just those white southerners and a certain old guy in New York who were fixated on his race from the…

There were hit songs about what a big moment it is that he was black. At least among minorities that was a massive deal. If you didn't see that, I think you're probably closer to those white southerners than you might think you are.

Can you imagine if mainstream entertainers made songs celebrating having a white president?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama taught constitutional law and served in the state and US Senate before running for president. He was [not] some unqualified hack thrust into power because they needed a person of a different race in power. Obama's campaign was far less about race than Trump's campaigns in 2016 and 2024. Unless you can't hear the dog whistles.

Can you clarify what Trump's 2016 had to do with race

Read the Wiki on his 2016 campaign. Or pretty much anything he said on race prior to the campaign.

That he attracted votes from anyone without white skin is amazing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#266
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamala lost because of Biden, who somehow was even less likeable than Hillary by the end.

Biden fucked up in many ways, but he also got a lot of flack from bad timing and poor messaging. It’s easy to say COVID hurt Trump in 20 and Kamala in 24, but I think the details mattered. The inflation rate fell significantly under his presidency, but during periods of high inflation prices soared. Coming back from that after generations of extremely low inflation would have been tough for someone without failing fa…

Yes... Biden's presidency objectively wasn't bad, but the way it was messaged and the optics he gave off were just impossible to recover from.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify what Trump's 2016 had to do with race

Read the Wiki on his 2016 campaign. Or pretty much anything he said on race prior to the campaign. That he attracted votes from anyone without white skin is amazing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

Don't just send me a random dump wiki dump. Give me actual racist things he said in 2016.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#268
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it might not quite be the same path that led the USSR to ruin. The end of the Soviet Union as a political and geographic entity was not its ruin. What ruined it and opened the door for a strongman ruler was: a) an inexperienced President (Yeltsin) who lacked a unifying vision for the newly formed republic and wasn't respected by its business elite or by foreign leaders b) the 'free market liberalization' reform…

Present circumstances in America are very different. When Putin took power, Russia's economy had been declining rapidly for a decade; then over his first decade, the GDP dectupled . If the US were to somehow achieve $600,000 GDP per capita by the end of Trump's current term, yeah, Americans would probably want to reevaluate their conventional wisdom about what good governance looks like. But I'm pretty confident that…

The GDP rise your talking about is to some extent an exchange rate phenonomena. Russia's currency collapsed in the early 90s, by the 00's it was able to strengthen and stabilize. Quality of life went down, but it was not proportionate to the collapse in GDP. Thinking about similar phenomenon occurring in the United States is kind of pointless, that would require a collapse in the dollars reserve currency status which would have dramatic ramifications world wide. The Dollar is the yardstick, if another currency became stronger, it would be the yardstick, and that's an entire regime change kind of for everybody. While Russia's currency can collapse in strength vis a vis the dollar, and then increase a great deal, but it was weaker than the dollar at every point. The collapse in its strength meant that it was difficult for the country to trade in that period. But Russia still had its domestic industry through the entire period, which wasn't affected to the degree that the collapse in trade and currency value would suggest,

Also the volatility of economic growth of smaller countries tends to be much higher than anything experienced by developed countries. When you start from a small scale, GDP jumps of 10x are hardly unheard of. While increases of such magnitude in an already developed country would be unprecedented.

Also, the Russian economy is just a series of frauds run by lawless oligarchs stacked on top of each other. The only limiting factor on them is when Putin randomly decides to throw one of them out of a window. It's a pure patrimonialist system, which is a system sustained by lawlessness, manipulation, and fraud. This is of course the truth of the fascist system itself, its simply an attempt to wrap the whole of society in one big patrimonialist network. There's a reason they had to invade Ukraine - the bills were coming due, and they knew the only way they could make good on promises they otherwise couldn't keep was a sustained program of national subjugation and exploitation. This was inevitable from the moment the system was set up. This system is inherently unstable.

The words of the participants in the system while it is ongoing are meaningless. They are wrapped in some kind of patrimonial network or another, supporting some kind of overhyped fraud or another that represents all their dreams and aspirations. They are censored, subject to constant manipulation, and deliberately manipulated with false flags and psy ops. Their whole society is designed as a giant cartwheel to shove people into various frauds. I can be sad for victims of fraud, yes, but that doesn't make them any easier to deal with before they give up on their expectations and stop believing the lies of the one who is defrauding them, who frequently sicks them on anyone who attempts to combat the fraud, telling them that "Actually that person is the one who's keeping you from getting your money!" Hitler arrayed millions of German youth upon fields of slaughter with such tactics once before, why would we expect any different outcome now? We should've known better.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#269

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

On the positive side, Trump is so unstable that he'll trash your business one day and then the next day he'll reverse course. So, "if people kiss your ass enough, they get contract" does not seem to be a long-term viable strategy. (Exhibit A: Musk.) I'm 90% sure it will lead to America's ruin, but it might not quite be the same path that led the USSR to ruin. Hey, at least it looks more entertaining! :/

> So, "if people kiss your ass enough, they get contract" does not seem to be a long-term viable strategy. (Exhibit A: Musk.)

But Musk initiated it, by going against Trump's bill. The new conclusion is "to get contract, you must kiss ass so much and you can't say anything bad, ever"

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump's win was a revolt against the social justice age. So, it wasn't bigotry it was just a reaction against the rejection of bigotry?

The social justice age wasn't a rejection of bigotry. It was a Mccarthy-esque movement of dividing everybody between sexual and racial lines into a hierarchy of who was and wasn't allowed to speak. Speaking against the party line meant exile. The SJW/Wokeism movement had nothing to do with true equity and "rejection of bigotry". That's why there was such a revolt against it.

> Speaking against the party line meant exile.

But that has got worse, not better.

Trump is threatening to cancel contracts with Musk and to Munich him if he funds opposition.

That’s the bluntest example of ‘cancel culture’ you’ll find.

Also: Musk and Trump deserve each other.

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