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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#231

Post by bobxmax »

Retric wrote: post #228
bobxmax wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hillary and Kamala got boosts from being a woman. They just had a massive drop because of, especially in Hillary's case, being deeply unlikeable. Kamala probably wins in 2016.

> Hillary and Clinton got boosts It’s Hillary and Kamala Harris. I’m not saying they don’t get some voters from being women, the point is they also lost votes from being women. I think a rotting corps might have won in 2016, but 4 years later vs a women and suddenly he’s doing great.

Kamala lost because of Biden, who somehow was even less likeable than Hillary by the end.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#232

Post by jfengel »

fcatalan wrote: post #197
medler wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that this kind of politicization started in the 90s is fanciful revisionism. It wasn’t really a thing in the US until about 2017. The word it’s known by is Trumpism.

9/11 was a big turning point in my experience. American conservatives that I considered online friends were simple impossible to reason with within days and completely alien beings after a few weeks.

Interesting. Things did change on 9/11 but it seemed incremental to me. Before that was the constant investigation of Clinton by Gingrich, the dog whistling of Reagan, Nixon's Southern Strategy, and before that to McCarthy and so on.

This is high level rather than your direct experience, so it's not a contradiction. Just a different perspective.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#233

Post by netsharc »

yongjik wrote: post #102
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #42

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

On the positive side, Trump is so unstable that he'll trash your business one day and then the next day he'll reverse course. So, "if people kiss your ass enough, they get contract" does not seem to be a long-term viable strategy. (Exhibit A: Musk.) I'm 90% sure it will lead to America's ruin, but it might not quite be the same path that led the USSR to ruin. Hey, at least it looks more entertaining! :/

Somebody needs to make memes about Elon looking forward to some taco and get Trump to see them...

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#234

Post by dralley »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #229
pessimist wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that when elections are fought on the basis of identity (race, religion) etc corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I witnessed this up close in India where parties openly exist to benefit certain constituencies based on caste, language, religion and so on. It is horrifying to see this attitude take root in my a…

> corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 : It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. It’s not an inconsis…

>It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied.

For my friends - everything, for my enemies - the law.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#235

Post by bobxmax »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #230
bobxmax wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't claim that while claiming wanting to elect a black president wasn't a big driver in much of the turnout for Obama. There were multiple musicians literally making songs about finally being able to elect a black president.

Obama was genuinely qualified to be president. Trump was clearly unfit in 2016 (having never held elected office and run nearly all his businesses into the ground), and constitutionally disqualified after Jan 6 2021. Trump was also reluctant to denounce or criticize white nationalists. He repeated and reposted neo-Nazi content and phrases. He is the one ordering a zealous yet haphazard dismantling of anything that br…

That's your opinion though. Obviously lots of people disagree.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#236

Post by hiatus »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #207
pessimist wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, I don't disagree with anything you point out. However where we differ is that I believe identity politics is the trigger factor here, all the other changes you mention (loss of balance of power etc) are downstream of this.

Your causal diagram is backwards. Identity politics isn't the path to corruption. Corrupt politicians like Trump use identity politics to gain power to practice their corruption. Nobody who wanted to bring back Christian hegemony and re-oppress minority groups is cheering that Trump is threatening to take away contracts from Musk because "their side is winning."

> Identity politics isn't the path to corruption. Corrupt politicians like Trump use identity politics to gain power to practice their corruption.

These two sentences, taken together, lead me to exactly the opposite conclusion—exploitation of identity politics allows one to gain power to enact corruption. You play into what people want by being the savior they think they need and then once in power do whatever the hell you wanted in the first place.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#237

Post by krapp »

bobxmax wrote: post #223
Daishiman wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The resentment of a chunk of white Americans who for some reason did not like having a black president.

You can't claim that while claiming wanting to elect a black president wasn't a big driver in much of the turnout for Obama. There were multiple musicians literally making songs about finally being able to elect a black president.

Trump's initial popularity was due in no small part to the anger of American white supremacists and the alt-right, this was well documented even back in 2016[0,3]. That the President elected after Obama was the man who mainstreamed the birther conspiracies against Obama was not a coincidence. It wasn't entirely about Obama, but he was the straw that broke white America's back.

[0]https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/donald-...

[1]https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/donald-trump...

[2]https://archive.is/tZpFB

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#238

Post by yubblegum »

jmyeet wrote: post #38
BirAdam wrote: post #24

So, the government would do what, lean on Russia with whom the USA is currently engaged in a proxy war? Also, for Boeing or Blue Origin, the cost would currently be higher per launch, and as far as I know, no one has the kind of satellite network that SpaceX does. Of course, those are sane considerations. I suppose I shouldn’t accuse the Donald of any kind of rational thinking.

SpaceX is critical infrastructure to the US at this point and its continued availability and operation is of national security interest. That may sound like it gives Elon power. It's the opposite, actually. No US administration will take lightly threats to national security infrastructure like this. The nuclear option for any administration is to nationalize SpaceX, which they absolutely could do. Less nuclear: the U…

My thoughts exactly. This is a clear case of eminent domain. Doesn't spacex have a board to control their ceo?

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#240

Post by voidfunc »

cosmicgadget wrote: post #178
peterfirefly wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not out of thin air. There's a reason why the impeachment process is in the Constitution -- and why it's perfectly normal for countries to have Parliamental Immunity and processes quite similar to the US impeachment for government ministers.

We have legislative immunity called the speech and debate clause. It doesn't shield lawmakers from other crimes, nor should it, and it certainly doesn't imply some sort of expansive executive immunity. The founders were rebelling agaisnt an untouchable executive, remember?

If the founders thought it was so important the President not have immunity from all crimes they would have written it such rather than leaving it to interpretation.
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