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I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

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Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#51

Post by Freedom2 »

stevesearer wrote: post #39
Freedom2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I said "you shouldn't do X" in an in person interview, I failed and the feedback was "candidate was not cooperative with the interviewer". So even if the candidate is not using an LLM, the interview process is so messed up now that people willingly go along otherwise they may be rejected for, you know, actually stating what their experience was like. Funnily enough, that was a YC funded company that I was i…

Not sure how your delivery was, but maybe the best way is, “If I were doing it that way, here’s how I’d go about it. However, I might consider this other way and here’s why.”

In all honesty, my words were something along the lines of "I don't think that approach is a good idea. It's because of X reason."

Another viewpoint I've seen when sharing this story is that the interviewer wants me to start with the "bad" implementation first, then we move on to the "proper" one, but what's the point if I actually have pointed out the flaws beforehand?

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#52

Post by jinushaun »

Sounds like they fired the wrong person.

Sure, on a case by case basis, it’s easy to make the argument that the smart asshole should’ve been more agreeable and tactful. But in the long term, keeping these managers hurts the company more and it’s how you end up with zombie orgs that scrape by.

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#53

Post by krackers »

wenc wrote: post #48

The SQL question (mentioned in the thread) was: "It was very benign and was probably the most practical question I asked him! Let's say you want to randomly sample 1,000 users out of a table with a user_id column, e.g. so you can get a list of IDs to send a customer feedback form to. How would you do that?" To me, that's not a dumb question. I mean, there is a simple answer but there are also complicated answers (esp…

Could it be construed as a dumb question because the details depend on the specific engine you're using? If you have TABLESAMPLE, then the question is trivial. The question doesn't really test anything general other than "are you aware that your engine probably already has a feature for this"

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#55

Post by Ancapistani »

crazydoggers wrote: post #16

If I were on the board / an investor of the company, I’d let the managers go and hire back that engineer. The goal of a company is to serve its customers and make a profit, not stroke managements egos. And it sounds more like this guy pointed out what was wrong and maybe embarrassed people, but that doesn’t make him an asshole. It’s one thing to be mean or call people names, that’s an asshole. But this guy was an “as…

> A good company has management that has a thick skin and acknowledges its missteps and raises up talent.

I've worked in companies where "thick skin" was a critical requirement. It worked OK, but the stress level was high and it was pretty toxic (even for someone with very thick skin).

I've worked in companies where empathy was the critical requirement. That was a better environment to work in, but it wasn't effective. Those companies died.

Where I work now is a mix of both: empathetic, but coupled with intellectual curiosity and respect. We challenge each other's ideas, but it's clear that we aren't attacking each others as people.

It honestly seems to be the best of both worlds. "Thick skin" isn't exactly the right way to put it, though. I'd say "vulnerability" describes it better.

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#56

Post by stavros »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #26
senthil_rajasek wrote: post #3

Moral of the story, you can be a star but still have to "work with" your managers.

Possible engineer was filtering the places he would want to work at. Any place that fires me for calling bullshit — I would not want to work at anyway. Sayonara!

Yep, when I'm doubting whether I should do something at my job, I think "I wouldn't want to work for a company where this got me in trouble". Fortunately, it never has.

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#57

Post by wenc »

krackers wrote: post #53
wenc wrote: post #48

The SQL question (mentioned in the thread) was: "It was very benign and was probably the most practical question I asked him! Let's say you want to randomly sample 1,000 users out of a table with a user_id column, e.g. so you can get a list of IDs to send a customer feedback form to. How would you do that?" To me, that's not a dumb question. I mean, there is a simple answer but there are also complicated answers (esp…

Could it be construed as a dumb question because the details depend on the specific engine you're using? If you have TABLESAMPLE, then the question is trivial. The question doesn't really test anything general other than "are you aware that your engine probably already has a feature for this"

I don’t think that in itself is dumb. It’s an application question that tests knowledge on sampling and doing it within the constraints of a database language and performance envelope of a large data store. The spirit of the question isn’t about the syntax but knowing the trade offs when applying sampling on a database.

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#58

Post by justaj »

nkrisc wrote: post #37
bgwalter wrote: post #12

Calling someone a "disagreeable asshole" just for saying that something is a dumb question is a bit strong. So he went out for challenging management on an internal document and he was 100% correct according to that tweet. Seems to me that the actual assholes are still employed in that company. Perhaps he was just hired to fix the mess. Once the job was done, he was no longer needed.

You can be a disagreeable asshole even while being completely correct. Being an “asshole” relates to inter-personal relationships, it has nothing to do with facts or correctness.

As long as they don't insult people personally then they're not an asshole in my book.

Attacking ideas is one, attacking people behind those ideas is another.

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#59

Post by nkrisc »

justaj wrote: post #58
nkrisc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be a disagreeable asshole even while being completely correct. Being an “asshole” relates to inter-personal relationships, it has nothing to do with facts or correctness.

As long as they don't insult people personally then they're not an asshole in my book. Attacking ideas is one, attacking people behind those ideas is another.

I agree, but not everyone sees it that way. People project themselves onto their ideas. It helps to consider that, sometimes.

Re: I started with a SQL question. He said "that's a dumb question."

#60

Post by bravesoul2 »

nkrisc wrote: post #37
bgwalter wrote: post #12

Calling someone a "disagreeable asshole" just for saying that something is a dumb question is a bit strong. So he went out for challenging management on an internal document and he was 100% correct according to that tweet. Seems to me that the actual assholes are still employed in that company. Perhaps he was just hired to fix the mess. Once the job was done, he was no longer needed.

You can be a disagreeable asshole even while being completely correct. Being an “asshole” relates to inter-personal relationships, it has nothing to do with facts or correctness.

Being a disagreable asshole is a sin of the working class. The server not the served.
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