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How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

learnwithjeff.com

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Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#171
post #34

Yay, that's exactly what our industry needs; more cargo cult programmers writing terrible software! Let's just be glad that this RoR guy isn't building anything safety critical.

Account created: 91 days ago We've been talking a lot lately about the decline of quality commentary on HN, and the increase of negativity and snarkiness. Parent is a great example. OP, I enjoyed the post and forwarded it on to some friends. Nice work!

I have been reading HN for years, my account creation date is irrelevant. However, I agree with you; my comment was terse, snarky, and didn't allow for any real debate.

However, I my stance doesn't change one bit. Six months is not enough time to learn enough to be a good software developer, period. I am a self taught software engineer, but it took a long time before I was capable of writing production quality code (certainly more than 6 months) and I am of course still learning.

We don't need more people like this in the field. I interview enough of them and I can't stand it. Great, so you can write a basic website propped up by a massive framework.

Do you know how to troubleshoot performance problems? Can you diagnose non-trivial issues, perhaps relating to the underlying hardware? Is your code maintainable? Does it account for edge cases properly? Is it robust enough to withstand serious use?

Probably not. I am 100% behind anyone who wants to learn how to program. I am not behind hiring them at the size month mark. I used RoR in a pejorative manner because it is kiddie stuff. Anyone can teach themselves to use it pretty quickly, but that doesn't make you a good engineer ("programmer", whatever.)

Our industry is full of incompetent people, we don't need more of them. I work in a systems group and I don't see this problem in mechanical or electrical engineering. Sure, there will always exist people who are in the lower ranks of their respective field, but in software we are inundated by people who simply have no clue what they are doing beyond the most basic of tasks.

This is a problem, so when I see "How to get a developer job in six months" it makes me cringe. It trivializes what we do and no one is ready for prime time after six months.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#172

Yay, that's exactly what our industry needs; more cargo cult programmers writing terrible software! Let's just be glad that this RoR guy isn't building anything safety critical.

How very positive and encouraging of you. Exactly what our industry needs, elitist developers who don't want to grow the industry. You know, there is a shortage of strong developers available and you were a beginner too at one point.

Our industry already contains far too many "engineers" who don't understand what their code is doing at a basic level. I have absolutely no problem with people teaching themselves how to program (I did). I have a problem with said people expecting a job after six months of practice. If you want to work with people like that then feel free to hire them, I won't.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#173

So, there have been a lot of negative comments and I understand where they are coming from. I will try to address them as best I can. "Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous." I am working mostly on internal systems and when I venture outside of that I have my own branch write thorough tests and have multiple people check my c…

How much will you be making at your new gig?

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#174

Wow.. so I really could have landed a programming job when I was 13? Damn. Maybe I should have just believed in myself more like this guy. I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people like him are let loose on. Awesome that he's passionate and landed something, but underneath it just makes me cringe because I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally sk…

"I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday" Passion makes one want to learn more, and constantly improve. People who love what they do will listen to others advice and are able to be molded in to a great developer. Without that passion, you are just doing your job - and when it is "just" a job, then you aren't giving it your 100%. Maybe blam…

You're right, my response was probably a little angsty. There are some that are willing to expand and learn more and they usually turn out to be awesome developers with innovative ideas all the time. I was probably more referring to the "job" types, who don't care for what you might have to teach them and they just wind up getting in your way =\

Hopefully the future will hold more career type developers in my sector, but we'll have to wait and see =)

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#175

So, there have been a lot of negative comments and I understand where they are coming from. I will try to address them as best I can. "Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous." I am working mostly on internal systems and when I venture outside of that I have my own branch write thorough tests and have multiple people check my c…

I read your piece with mixed feelings, I felt some kind of frustration. Then I thought for a bit and realized what I actually felt was jealousy and a bit of insecurity. After I recognized this it took me less than a minute to dismiss them completely - I'm not a cheerful person and I can't say I was really "happy for you", but what I wanted to write as a comment at that point was something in the lines of "good job".

Then I read the comments. Then went to work. Then read some more comments after I came back.

And what I want to write now would consist of profanities, wild swearing and all expressions of despise I could find. Not directed at you, obviously but at all the people who write complete and utter bullshit like the one who calls himself a programmer JUST BECAUSE of a few years in school or another one who thinks you'll be "a nightmare and time-suck for coworkers". I have no words for the ones like them, and it's not because English is my second language (it is ofc). And I'm scared shitless that, had I not take a couple of minutes to think, I could write something similar.

Well, obviously, you did... I'm not a cheerful, empathic person. You did ok, and you know it - you're employed and you do what you like. You don't need me to tell you that. Instead, I'll try to explain to you why those people wrote those poisonous comments, or, at least, what was it that almost made me write something similar.

1) I started programming at the age of 10 and got my first job in the field some twelve years later. Not because of lack of opportunity, there were chances. I was shy, I was uncertain of my skills (think 16+, obviously not earlier), I wasted time hesitating. From 10 to 16 years of age there were six summer holidays, which amounts to almost twelve months of programming (which is understatement - what with winter holidays and programming after school and all), so at least double the time you spent. And I wasted another six years before I finally gathered up the courage and actually applied somewhere (I got hired right off the bat). To put it simply: I'm jealous. You did what I could have done but didn't. I think there is still, almost ten years later, some regret in me that I didn't. Your post touched that regret and almost caused me to be mindlessly aggressive as some of the other commentator. I think this is a motivation for some of them.

2) The one who wrote that 'he studied 5 years at university' has similar reasons to the one stated above. It's just regret mixed with anger. The truth is he knows what these years gave him (at least if he's active as a professional developer now) and is bitter about this. This one is easy for me to spot, because I see it in people when they (sometimes after years of successful cooperation!) find out that I dropped out fairly quickly and never got my degree. It's funny, because I have never heard such complaints from people who had some social life during college. In short: they know they wasted they time, or alternatively, they know that they're not cut out to be programmers if they couldn't become one without collage. And for the record - don't be intimidated, please. "Compilers, networks, databases, concurrent programming" - you'll learn all of this if you want, it's not some arcane magic, really, you're perfectly able to learn most of those things on your own. Your post, your success in just six months shows this. They couldn't do this if their lives depended on it, and that's why they're angry. [It (the former case, of regretting time spent in college) applies equally to me, but in a weird way: maybe I could be an entirely self-taught programmer, but I'm not, and this angers me. If only I knew better than to go to college, waste time and money, and instead just programmed more! But no, I had to take those few years and now I hear sometimes that "well, imagine how much better you'd be if you graduated" or "anything you know is because of your education, it's a pity you dropped out"...]

3) In this profession, if you want to be serious about it, it's absolutely not about how much you know at any given point, it's about how quickly and efficiently you accumulate knowledge. Many people take for granted that after some time speed of knowledge acquisition drops, but they should know better. It's not a law, it's just their laziness. What you did in half a year is not impressive for the ones ahead of you - I mean what you can do now, what skills you have now. But if you keep it up... if you'll stay as passionate as you are for a few years more... Yeah, I can see that: hordes of programmers (consciously or not) afraid of you. Programmers who haven't learned anything new since last year. Programmers who learn, but slowly. Programmers who are not giving their best. That's why I wrote about insecurity at the beginning, that's what I briefly felt, until I realized I have better things to do than worry about this - writing this small Erlang pet project for example. Remember that if you keep at it you will upset many people, those who stopped learning, those who stagnated, but it's not your fault they're lazy!

Well, I just realized that I wrote an awful lot of text, most of which is my own introspection and, partially, projection. I did it probably because I'm not a cheerful person and this is the simplest way for me to tell you: "good job, keep at it". Ignore negative comments, in such cases as yours they tell much more about their authors than about what you did.

And you know what you did, you don't need me to tell you that, so I'll just end this here.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're from more of a math background (with maybe a little MATLAB knowledge). Python's a great language for machine learning and natural language processing tasks. Great glue language, lots of libraries, prototype quickly, scale with multiprocessing or Hadoop streaming or pycloud. Build your own analysis stack or classifier then display the results on the web with Bottle or Flask.

These are true statements about Python's strengths. I don't realistically see how those are going to help you get a job unless that job also takes an advanced degree, or at the very least a BS touching on a field you have specialized knowledge of.

Good point. I'm perhaps generalizing too much from my own experience (which is admittedly of having an advanced degree in mathematics and being a recent Silicon Valley transplant).

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#177

It's really frustrating reading all the negative comments here. What happened to positive support for people in our community? This guy had a passion, worked his butt off and got a good result... I'm sure he'll go on to many more good things in the future. We should applaud and celebrate this, not knock down how he's not a senior developer yet. Congratulations Jeff!!

Absolutely. Were an alien to pick up this thread it would think that programming was some God-appointed job.

Jeff, congrats from another (ashamed for the moment) programmer.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting. I have no degree. I've taken the time to teach myself the fundamentals. Dueling anecdotes here obviously but we all know plenty of people with CS degrees who are worthless when it comes to tackling a problem, and plenty of people without who are credits to their profession. Programmers program. If someone programs, they're a programmer. My daughter uses scratch to write software. She's 8, the softw…

This sounds as serious as claiming your daughter is a civil engineer because she builds LEGO buildings or she's a biologist because she knows to feed her goldfish. At the end of the day we need some terminology that distinguishes the guy that took a semester to learn MS Access from the one that took 4 years to study CS in university. It's an unfortunate common theme in HN but I can't think off the top of my head othe…

I'm almost afraid to tell you this given how important the title "programmer" seems to be to you... but the barrier to a stable, enjoyable, productive and well-paid career as a programmer is very, very, very low. Much lower than any other science or engineering field that I can think of.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#179
post #90

I'm an unemployed programmer with 10 years of experience and I've been looking for a (part-time) job for less than six months. I keep telling myself it would be great if instead of looking for a job I could spend all that time just coding. I have plenty of ideas. I've avoided that because it feels like running away from my responsibilities, but this post makes me think again. On the other hand the situation seems to…

You can always sign up to odesk and/or vworker and pick up some paid coding tasks there. You might even end up working full time (I have).

I've been thinking about odesk, but didn't know vworker. Good to know it can work, thanks.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#180

You really did a great job! I took longer than you, but I followed a similar path. In hindsight, I can't imagine taking any other path, its been a blast! If I could emphasize one of your points, it would be to MAKE stuff, don't pick out problems out of thin air, MAKE stuff you want! I really happy for you, and I'm really glad you wrote this. I haven't agreed with someone so much in a while! Also, I would reinforce yo…

Genuine question: what does IRC do for getting a job other than taking up time?

the python channel was incredibly useful when I repeatedly missed no brainer things when i was first starting out. Any library's irc will probably have at least one person who knows the library inside and out, and can help you with a problem. It's really incredible you can do all this for free!
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