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The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

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531–540 of 991 posts

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Profitable" in an accounting sense has nothing to do with your cash position. This is something that people in tech don't really seem to understand.

i think people in tech are usually focused on free cash flow, aka playing around money.

Tech likes free cash flow because share based compensation isn't included in it.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#532
post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're producing a capital asset, you do retain the right to the fruits of their labor, even if they quit. The rationale behind amortization isn't exactly the idea that the asset can be sold, it's that the asset is producing revenue over multiple years. For software, the asset is the codebase. Let's say you hire a single software dev, for one year, and they write Excel++, which you can sell for the next ten years…

As anyone that has ever sold software IP knows, most of the value is vested in the person that wrote the code, not the code itself. The code is not a factory, it is the output of the factory.

> ...most of the value is vested in the person that wrote the code, not the code itself.

You must have misphrased what you intended to say. If what you wrote was true, a software company's most valuable asset would be the specific programmers in its employ. If true, average tenure of a programmer would be way longer than 1.5->2 years as companies worked really, really hard to keep their most valuable assets from walking out the door into the doors of another company just to get reasonable pay increases.

Perhaps your opinion is influenced by doing post-collapse-sales of a whole bunch of software houses that built just plain bad software? I can't see why else you'd be selling "software IP" independently of the rest of the business.

Anyway. Given that information, how should you have phrased what you wanted to say?

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#533
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are small and so have been on a hiring freeze since 2022. I’d like to hire but the upfront cost is high. For those around when this went into effect many business owners were surprised. Our accountants told us they seriously thought congress would fix this before it went into effect.

[flagged]

It's actually not uncommon for something stupid to make it to the official tax code and then get reverted. They knew the history.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I pay taxes on revenue.

Are you a company? If not, then you probably don't have revenue -- you have income.

If only I can pay tax just for income - expenses (rent, food, etc.)

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#535
> “I work on these tax write-offs and still hadn’t heard about this,” a chief operating officer at a private-equity-backed tech company told Quartz. “It’s just been so weirdly silent.”

Hasn't Ben Thompson of Stratechery spoken about this a number of times? I'm aware of this 'feature' and I'm not even in the USA, let alone a COO at a private-equity-backed yada yada.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#536
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have I grossly misrepresented? Or are you arguing that a tax rebate is not a subsidy? I haven’t even mentioned the changes made.

To start, rules for deductions aren’t tax rebates. Rebates also aren’t necessarily subsidies unless they’re targeted. Deciding whether labor is a capital or operating expense and deciding how to depreciate it if capital is also not a subsidy.

Would you like a razor with which to better split hairs? Also, I don’t appreciate your blatant racism.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#537

There are some misunderstandings in the comments that seem to stem from not having read the section, so I thought it was worth referencing the actual text [0]. It's quite short and easy to read. The most important bits: * Subsection (a) requires amortizing "Specified research or experimental expenditures" over 5 years (paragraph (2)) instead of deducting them (paragraph (1)) * Paragraph (c)(3) is a Special Rule that…

It's pretty bad.

It had a huge impact on my personally, I'm a small R&D shop and basically I have had to end all risky long-term research projects.

In addition to the research costs, I'd also have to pay taxes on the research costs mostly up-front. Significantly, if the project doesn't work out, I'm still out of pocket for the tax money. It's a penalty for taking a risk, and it kneecaps American innovators in a globally competitive technology race.

The rules are even worse than the article notes because it double-dings open source developers. See Section 6.4 of https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-23-63.pdf. The relevant bit is here:

> "However, even if the research provider does not bear financial risk under the terms of the contract with the research recipient, if the research provider has a right to use any resulting SRE product ... costs paid or incurred by the research provider that are incident to the SRE activities performed by the research provider under the contract are SRE expenditures of the research provider for which no deduction is allowed ..."

The rule as written means contractors who write Windows drivers could deduct their expenses (as they would have no residual rights to a closed-source work product), but contractors who write Linux drivers may not (as they would have some rights to open-source Linux drivers).

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not parent but the founders were like folks writing smart contract code, thinking about various exploits and vulnerabilities (that might reduce the wealth of their class) so many of the seemingly dysfunctional elements of the system turn out to be designed deliberately to be dysfunctional. Feature not bug.

They were not thinking about various exploits and vulnerabilities but rather making whatever compromises were necessary in order to form the union. It was negotiation, not planning.

A compromise can also be a feature to resolve a bug, from the point of view of the one demanding it.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a misunderstanding of the kind of taxation policy progressives tend to favor. Taxation on profit for businesses should be high, and taxation on upper tiers of individual income should be high, but taxation on funds businesses use to reinvest should be exempted or deductable. Basically the taxation we had in place after WW2 and on, with a steep corporate tax rate and more or less a maximum income for indiv…

I don’t think most progressives think about it in that detail. Raise taxes on the rich tech companies that are gentrifying san francisco.

I‘m not American but the above description of a tax policy is what I hear a lot from progressives in media.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#540

Amortization is bad policy when it comes software. Software is inherently high risk. Every piece of software is unique and does not guarantee steady income over 5 years. Most startups won't survive 5 years to fully realize the deductions. This is the end of US software dominance.

Is US software dominance because of our startups? Or because of the giant trillion dollar monopolies we have? Didn't AAPL, GOOG and FB all create products _before_ they had any taxable income? Would this change have had any actual impact on their foundings?

Hi, I'm just really curious about something. Why write AAPL, GOOG, and FB, and not Apple, Google/Alphabet, and Facebook/Meta?
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