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The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

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241–250 of 991 posts

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#241
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is the simplest and best analogy I have read so far in the comments.

The chef doesn't create a meal once that you can sell for the next 10 years though. You pay him for time X, he makes a meal, you sell that meal. That's fundamentally different from regular software development outside of agencies where there is no direct relationship. Software development is closer to an investment than an expense. Amortization sucks in general, yes, because the money is gone and it doesn't affect yo…

When someone pays for labor to build an apartment building they profit off for decades, do they amortize that labor?

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#243
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really targeted at tech, insomuch as at Democrats. Everyone assumed it was a traditional accounting hack. But given the timing and the reinitialization, it's clearly political, not economic. The code is a strategic time-bomb designed to cause a high-profile economic downturn during a presidential election cycle, specifically when the following president is a Democrat and Republicans have a house majority. It…

The Democrats had control of the presidency and the house in 2022 when this provision first went into effect but had 2 fewer senators (1 fewer if you count the tie-breaking VP). Why didn't they try to change it? Is there some reason a change in the tax code like this can't be modified or repealed once its in place?

Why should they? Why did we allow a president to put in tax raise for the future. Replicants were playing politics from the start. Pass a bad bill, and then hope to get about it when the bad parts kick in when the other side woo be in power

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#244
post #125
post #72

Worth noting: the version of the Big Beautiful Bill passed by the House ends this particular change, starting in tax year 2025. We'll have to see if this provision makes it through the Senate, and in what form.

The destructive power of the Section 174 change cannot be overstated. It has been reported on a lot, but its harms are generally poorly articulated. I do not like many things in BBB, but I am glad to know there is at least something in there that I can be glad for.

Why sent tech companies and tech workers kick up a fuss when this bill passed in 2017. I remember being mad about it

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#245
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the one positive I have heard regarding OBBB. This should be put into its own bill.

That isn’t how legislation is passed. If anything, it needs a section about acceptable tar shingle application standards for roofs within 6 nautical miles of any heliport operated in a subarctic area on the west cost. Then it’s looking like a bill.

You forgot renewing the Patriot Act :)

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#246
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is tremendously important aspect here - the US tech would look better on paper - higher paper profits due lower paper expenses - while getting increased cash flow stress due to decreased deductability of the salaries which are among the main expenses in software dev business.

> Yes, that is tremendously important aspect here - the US tech would look better on paper It's completely unimportant. Nobody is getting fooled "on paper" by amortized salaries.

Except for example the millions of stock market casual participants.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#247
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is tremendously important aspect here - the US tech would look better on paper - higher paper profits due lower paper expenses - while getting increased cash flow stress due to decreased deductability of the salaries which are among the main expenses in software dev business.

> Yes, that is tremendously important aspect here - the US tech would look better on paper It's completely unimportant. Nobody is getting fooled "on paper" by amortized salaries.

People is getting fooled by "adjusted" earnings that reduce salaries "on paper" by hiding the "non cash" component.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's literally the Section 174 change. You now must count them as R&D. The relevant paragraph from Section 174: > (3) Software development > For purposes of this section, any amount paid or incurred in connection with the development of any software shall be treated as a research or experimental expenditure. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/174

what if you don't call it "software development"? how about "business process mechanization"?

I mean sometimes fraud works, sometimes it doesnt.

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Governments in general are pushing for capital gains tax normalization where instead of requiring a taxation event the capital gains tax would be levied yearly. You’re alluding to wealth taxes, right? Because taxing unrealised gains are wealth taxes. Or maybe I’ve misunderstood?

> Because taxing unrealised gains are wealth taxes. No, wealth taxes are a tax on retained wealth (a stock). Taxing unrealized gains is a tax on income (a flow), it just changes the point at which taxation attaches from a realization event to the actual gain.

But you haven't gained... you could be taxed over and over again, and if the stick drops or hits zero then what? It's all on paper and not "real".

Re: The time bomb in the tax code that's fueling mass tech layoffs

#250
post #185

As a non-American, it seems strange to me that the cost of regular software development, i.e. that is neither “research” nor “experimental” in a conventional sense, would be deductible in the first place (amortized or not). Isn’t that subsidizing a whole business sector? Maybe I’m misunderstanding something.

We're not talking about a tax deduction in the sense of a special privilege, we're talking about simple calculations of profit. Before this change, tax for software development was calculated against: * Profit = Revenue - Expenses And software developer salaries fell neatly into Expenses unless you were looking for an R&D tax credit. After this change, tax for software development is calculated against this new equat…

It is a subsidy!

Why should money spent on software _development_ not have to be deprecated over time like other money spent on _development_?

I get that it sucks from a cash flow standpoint but the same is going to be true of other R&D expenses. It's just that we're more exposed to this specific R&D expenditure and not others.

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