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Being fat is a trap

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Re: Being fat is a trap

#311

Post by orev »

ac29 wrote: post #309
orev wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you’re working 16h per day, every day, you have time to cook. There are many things that are very easy to cook and don’t even take that much effort, but people just refuse to learn how to use the tools they have. All you need is an oven and some baking pans, and you can easily make a well balanced meal in less than an hour. Roasted chicken, potatoes, vegetables. Done. There’s only a little bit of prep, then it…

100% agree that people should cook more. But your example of roast chicken in under an hour is misleading since it doesnt include the time to go grocery shopping or to clean up. Add those in and your roast chicken dinner is probably taking up at least 2 hours.

You take one hour a week to go grocery shopping and then you have everything you need to stay alive for that week. Then another two hours on the weekend to cook everything and clean.

It’s really a non-negotiable activity that’s essential for life. The mental gymnastics people use to justify their bad habits is really shocking.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#312

Post by aziaziazi »

nradov wrote: post #235
chneu wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A modern diet is a restrictive diet. We live in a time when half of our produced food is thrown away. That's why veganism makes so much sense nowadays. Nothing about the modern diet is "natural" for most people. Meat was awesome when calories were sparse/intermittent. Now it's just excess for the sake of a status symbol. Same can be said about a lot of our foods.

Meat is awesome when you need an optimal mix of nutrients — not just empty calories. Of course it's certainly possible to get the right proportions of macronutrients and sufficient micronutrients on a vegan diet but it takes a lot more planning and attention to detail.

> an optimal mix of nutrients

not much: meats lacks A. fibers and B. carbohydrate. Some can argue removing B isn't a bad idea, it certainly is quire restrictive. Removing A. have many short and long terms effects that are not very desirable.

Therefore most meat eaters also eat thinks like vegetables, beans, grains etc... which "unbalance" the "right proportions" (if that exist) of meat. It's very hard to achieve near perfect macro and micro nutriments if not with an artificial and perfectly calculated meals taking into account daily physical activity, psychological state, temperature, infections exposure etc... I'm not even sure ISS guys get such a calculation.

> sufficient micronutrients

This is easily done by eating plenty of plants -which is exactly what non meat eaters do- and a pill of B12. One can count but it's not more necessary than if they want a perfectly balanced meat diet, which also have its "problems" when not perfectly balanced.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#313

Post by ericmay »

orev wrote: post #311
ac29 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree that people should cook more. But your example of roast chicken in under an hour is misleading since it doesnt include the time to go grocery shopping or to clean up. Add those in and your roast chicken dinner is probably taking up at least 2 hours.

You take one hour a week to go grocery shopping and then you have everything you need to stay alive for that week. Then another two hours on the weekend to cook everything and clean. It’s really a non-negotiable activity that’s essential for life. The mental gymnastics people use to justify their bad habits is really shocking.

Completely agree. And to add on, many are complaining about not having time and working, but you're working more because you're spending more on eating out, DoorDash, etc., then your waistline expands, health problems creep in, and so on and so forth.

The American version of how we eat is abject nonsense - DoorDash expensive food that's worse than what you can cook for yourself, incredibly unhealthy, and then in between doomscrolling Elon Musk's latest Tweets and your ever expanding waste line complain that there's no time to do anything and you just can't cook because it takes "2 hours to go to the grocery store". Americans don't even go out to eat and take their time and enjoy life and the culinary arts because they're in a rush.

Unfortunately our car-only infrastructure reinforces this learned helplessness, and so we have crappy food quality, obese people and massive healthcare costs, and antisocial behavior as people spend their time terminally online.

Sorry for the rant to anyone reading. Don't take it too seriously. It just drives me crazy that we have such a great and vibrant country and we refuse to truly live in it for some god forsaken reason.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#314

Post by sleight42 »

gruez wrote: post #223
chneu wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A modern diet is a restrictive diet. We live in a time when half of our produced food is thrown away. That's why veganism makes so much sense nowadays. Nothing about the modern diet is "natural" for most people. Meat was awesome when calories were sparse/intermittent. Now it's just excess for the sake of a status symbol. Same can be said about a lot of our foods.

>We live in a time when half of our produced food is thrown away. I don't see how this is a relevant fact. If we threw away 10x the food does that make our diet even more unhealthy? Moreover if technological innovations like refrigeration decreases food waste, does that magically make our diet healthy again? >That's why veganism makes so much sense nowadays. Nothing about the modern diet is "natural" for most people.…

> If you turn back the clock even more (ie. pre-agriculture), you'd probably see the reverse (ie. more meat consumption).

I believe you're agreeing with the comment you're commenting on. Before calories were easily available, meat was the most reliable form of protein and fat in most environments.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#315

Post by narnarpapadaddy »

netdevphoenix wrote: post #237
narnarpapadaddy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that black and white, all or nothing is easier for many to stick to. It’s easier to not be tempted by a cigarette if you never see one or hang out with someone who smokes. With food, you can’t take approach.

That is fair but you can't pretend all food is bad when that's not true. That is what I took issue with. You can eat as many greens and lentils as you want. No such thing with cigs

The fact you can’t pretend _is the point_. A blanket policy of “no and never” that works well for other addictions or compulsions can’t be applied to food. :)

As a counter-factual, imagine if every time you wanted to smoke you had to decide if one particular type or brand of cigarette was good for you.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#316

Post by Aunche »

ethbr1 wrote: post #260
blooalien wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... "within the past 100 years we are suddenly in an environment where those cravings can be fulfilled in abundance." And an environment where a massive completely out of control advertising industry that's injected into pretty much everything these days abuses every psychological trick in the book to capitalize on those evolutionary cravings.

This. If the ad industry put half as much effort into promoting healthy eating, we wouldn't train everyone to eat poorly and/or excessively at a young age. FFS, look at how long it took to get calorie counts on menu signage! And that's the lowest hanging fruit. 1. Fix fast food + the ad industry by financially penalizing pushing unhealthy food. 2. Rework the food supply chain to support healthier eating. (Less ultra-…

For the most part, supply follows from demand than the other way around. If people cared more about healthy food more than convenient and tasty food, then companies will sell and advertise healthier food. Chinatowns were historically poor, but they never turned into food deserts because vegetables are a quintessential part of Chinese cuisine.

Taxing unhealthy food may work, but that would also piss a lot of people off who have their palates destroyed from eating too junk food, especially since you'd need taxes to be high enough to basically force people to change their habits. Subsidies for healthy food tend to benefit the the upper-middle class the most. Subsidizing school lunches that are both healthy and not disgusting is the only option I see as both feasible and effective.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#317

Post by QuiEgo »

I’m a huge fan of vice taxes. Let people do whatever they want, as long as they are (literally) willing to pay up for what it costs society. I’m not quite sure exactly how you price this in, but Coca-Cola and refined sugar in general should cost a hell of a lot more than they do now.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#318

Post by OkayPhysicist »

wiseowise wrote: post #126
SonOfLilit wrote: post #35

I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. Some of my friends are obese despite exercising heavily every day. Finding ways you enjoy to keep an active lifestyle is a great idea, probably the highest impact thing you can do for your long term well being (for people i…

> I have extremely lucky genes and have managed to stay just within the green BMI range despite eating all the carbs and fats you can imagine and at times consuming 200-300g of milk chocolate a day. You’d be surprised just how little you eat. I’m also like that, thinking that I eat shitton and don’t get fat at all while my friends can’t lose 5 kilo. When I’ve started counting, even with all the junk food, I’ve been b…

People don't realize how wildly appetite varies between individuals. Thinner people tend to think they eat a lot, because they're fulfilling their appetite. Fatter people often think they don't eat that much, because they're rarely full. IME, that's the thing that varies far more than actual metabolism stuff.

Re: Being fat is a trap

#319

Post by const_cast »

timcobb wrote: post #44

> but you have the choice to step out of the fat trap. People should also talk about the volition trap. I'm 40 and it feels like I've had more than a life's worth of people talking about how "you can do it if you just try!" > ... advertising signs that con / you into thinking you can do what's never been done / meantime life goes on all around you The sheer scope of the obesity pandemic should make it clear that we a…

> How did we come all this way as a species if we are so fundamentally flawed at basic metabolic regulation?

IMO: because we have always had nowhere near enough food. Agriculture revolution was what, 10,000 years ago? That's a blip.

It's entirely possible in my mind that the same mechanism and behaviors that fuel obesity were actually helpful for almost all of human history. It's just now, like right now, that they're a problem.

And it becomes even more obvious to me when I look at other animals. I look at my cute dog. If I gave him infinite access to food, I have no doubt he'd be dead by the end of the week. Is he stupid? Is he broken? Or was he never intended to be in that situation?

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