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How Common Is Multiple Invention?

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Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#31

Post by peterfirefly »

analog31 wrote: post #18
Animats wrote: post #14

How many inventions were invented multiple times because the first inventor ran out of money before reaching a viable product? That's a worthwhile analysis. Edison got a workable lightbulb by having a whole staff trying different materials. The concept was known - find some resistive material that will tolerate high temperature and run some power through it. Works fine with platinum, but costs too much. Many material…

In addition to the filament material, Edison's research program also worked tirelessly on improving vacuum technology. Getting electric current into a glass bulb without leaks or cracking due to thermal expansion, and keeping the air out, are no small feats.

They started by improving vacuum pumps and getting several patents on that. This was before the invention of the getter, so the pumps had to do all the work.

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#32

Post by BoppreH »

_1tem wrote: post #29

There’s an interesting weird theory about how we get ideas (related to Platonic philosophy) called “morphic resonance”. Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. If so, then multiple simultaneous invention makes total sense. Proponents of morphic resonance actually posit a number of other w…

> Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe.

That sounds interesting. Like an accidental combination of movie + song + recent news that gives useful insights in some area.

With today's digital tracking, I wonder if we can quantify it: "X% of programming language creators read both Asimov and Terry Pratchett in non-English speaking countries".

> For example rats who master a maze in one part of the world make it easier for unrelated rats anywhere in the world to master the same maze pattern — it’s as if the learned skill/idea is “broadcast” to all rat brains.

Oh, you were being literal. That's deep into pseudoscience territory. What's the proposed mechanism for this "broadcast"?

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#33

Post by enb »

_1tem wrote: post #29

There’s an interesting weird theory about how we get ideas (related to Platonic philosophy) called “morphic resonance”. Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. If so, then multiple simultaneous invention makes total sense. Proponents of morphic resonance actually posit a number of other w…

Sounds like a Torchwood scenario

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#34

Post by 6510 »

analog31 wrote: post #20
dlcarrier wrote: post #12

This one line (especially the part in parenthesis) hits directly on the heart of the matter: Lillienfeld likely never actually built his transistor (it would have almost certainly been impossible to build a working one due to material limitations), but he nevertheless described the concept. An invention doesn't become viable when someone thinks it up, it becomes viable when the material science is there to make it ha…

I've adopted a personal rule about "invention," loosely based on the patent system. Claiming to have had an "idea" is not enough. Ideas are a dime a dozen. But a patent requires a coherent description, novelty, and practicability. And disclosure. Reduction to practice is where I think the rubber meets the road. This is where you find out if someone actually understands the subject matter well enough to have invented…

> Ideas are a dime a dozen.

This is one of those statements that say more about the person not having ideas than about ideas. One could say it was an idea in it self so poor it should have vanished in the pile of crap never to be heard about by anyone - if only they had two or three more.

History is full of accomplished people who thought everything was invented already. The truth is that we started rubbing sticks together two weeks ago. In the cosmic sense we don't even have a life span. Our average memory cant compete with a single sheet of a4 paper. It is a miracle we can find time to fit in an original thought in the cracks between earning a living, reproducing, eating, sleeping, house keeping, social interactions and personal hygiene.

And then we have this preference for keeping things the way they are. Something new, however adventurous, really has to make an effort to overcome that one! I bet 99% gets debunked by the person having the thought.

Patents are only interesting if what you are really looking for is money or fame. It's an inferior mind set compared to curiosity. You decide what counts, not the guy willing to give you a shiny dime for what could be that single awesome original thought you got to have in your life span but only after you share it. ha-ha

The stuff people discovered is actually so bizarre that if you described it to people 100 years before it would sound utterly absurd. In the future our fellow apes will descend from the trees and rub sticks together? Then the other monkey looks at you from the corner of their eyes while tilting their head. Of course before that one of them had to come up with the idea to go live in trees! Imagine what bad idea that was. Or how about crawling onto the beach and living on land. The other fish must have been like, dude?!?! stop eating the pink sea weed!

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#35

Post by k__ »

_1tem wrote: post #29

There’s an interesting weird theory about how we get ideas (related to Platonic philosophy) called “morphic resonance”. Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. If so, then multiple simultaneous invention makes total sense. Proponents of morphic resonance actually posit a number of other w…

I knew someone who believed in that. Morphogenetic fields, he called it.

Something about tribes living close to each other, but with no contact, inventing the same stuff. After the first one got a tech, the others would also invent it, but faster.

Seemed a bit far fetched to me. Like, they are living in similar conditions, so it seems reasonable that each of them develops similar tech.

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#36

Post by genewitch »

BoppreH wrote: post #32
_1tem wrote: post #29

There’s an interesting weird theory about how we get ideas (related to Platonic philosophy) called “morphic resonance”. Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. If so, then multiple simultaneous invention makes total sense. Proponents of morphic resonance actually posit a number of other w…

> Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. That sounds interesting. Like an accidental combination of movie + song + recent news that gives useful insights in some area. With today's digital tracking, I wonder if we can quantify it: "X% of programming language creators read both Asimov and…

Gravity, the luminiferous ether, psychic, even RF? Who knows. Maybe all rats are multi-furcations of the same rat, and there's squeaky action at distance.

Regardless I don't know how you'd prove this to everyone's satisfaction, it seems real easy to game/cheat.

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#37

Post by _1tem »

BoppreH wrote: post #32
_1tem wrote: post #29

There’s an interesting weird theory about how we get ideas (related to Platonic philosophy) called “morphic resonance”. Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. If so, then multiple simultaneous invention makes total sense. Proponents of morphic resonance actually posit a number of other w…

> Basically the theory is that ideas are actually like radio waves, in the environment, and our brains are like radio receivers that pick up ideas existing in the universe. That sounds interesting. Like an accidental combination of movie + song + recent news that gives useful insights in some area. With today's digital tracking, I wonder if we can quantify it: "X% of programming language creators read both Asimov and…

There’s no mechanism for broadcast, the idea is that the Platonic forms of these ideas are preexisting in the universe.

Or quantum spooky action at a distance?

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#38

Post by smallnix »

Or perhaps ideas need not only be had, but also pass through more layer of filters to make it into the world proper. Ideas that were had more than once had more than one chance. Ideas that made it into the world but were only once, were lucky. So that would mean there is a bias when looking at ideas that made it. So the correlation might be due to an inversed cause and effect.

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#39

Post by 1317 »

rmunn wrote: post #26

Vaguely related: I own a fun little board game called U.S. Patent No. 1 (made by Cheapass Games), which is obviously inspired by the story of Alexander Graham Bell beating Elisha Gray to the patent office by just a few hours. In that game, you play as one of several people throughout history who have invented a time machine, and all of you are racing to get to the U.S. Patent office first (i.e. the minute it opens),…

I was curious about the actual patent no.1:

The first US patent "was granted to Samuel Hopkins for a process of making potash, an ingredient used in fertilizer on July 31."

US Patent No.1 "was granted to Senator John Ruggles for a traction wheel for steam locomotives on July 13. The 9,957 patents granted before the numbering system are now known as the X-patents."

ref: https://www.uspto.gov/patents/milestones

Re: How Common Is Multiple Invention?

#40

Post by rmunn »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #27
rmunn wrote: post #26

Vaguely related: I own a fun little board game called U.S. Patent No. 1 (made by Cheapass Games), which is obviously inspired by the story of Alexander Graham Bell beating Elisha Gray to the patent office by just a few hours. In that game, you play as one of several people throughout history who have invented a time machine, and all of you are racing to get to the U.S. Patent office first (i.e. the minute it opens),…

The game concept sounds very fun! Would you not just travel back in time to get there first though? Hoping that kind it twist is in the spirit of the game…

Yes, that is the entire point of the game. All of you are from different periods in history, and you're all traveling back in time to the first day the U.S. Patent Office opens, in order to get the very first patent. But of course since you're all time travelers aiming for the same point in time, you have to interfere with each other in order to actually be the "first" to arrive. It gets very silly.
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