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Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

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Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#31

Post by ngc248 »

Etheryte wrote: post #13
eterm wrote: post #5

It's hard for some of the very best when they're no longer at their peak. Don't get me wrong, Magnus is still world #1 for a reason, but he used to be at a level where no-one could even scratch him. Now he has to fight much harder for victories, and he's not enjoying that. It's hard to determine how much is down to that factor, how much is how he feels over not being world champion anymore, and how much is a financia…

Let's not forget that Magnus didn't lose his world champion title, he gave it up willingly after holding the title from 2013 to 2021. All those years where everyone else is focusing specifically on how to defeat him and still coming short. He's talked about this at length in interviews, mostly it just became incredibly boring.

Wow .. you know how to put a positive spin on him losing

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#32

Post by fingerprince »

Theofrastus wrote: post #20

Chess960/Freestyle Chess is where it's at for me. There, the game feels fresh, it's about creativity and clever positional play. Sometimes when playing classical, it feels like a contest of who can memorize better, without room for creativity or passion. I'm not a particularly good classical player, but the mountain of grinding to get good just seems insurmountable to me.

960 has certainly gained some momentum and I very much hope to see Magnus continue to push it forward -- it's such a natural evolution of chess in the age of engines. Perhaps all it needs to take off is a world champion backing it who's less insane than Fischer!

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#34

Post by thom »

ale wrote: post #18
thom wrote: post #16

I think everyone here can probably sympathise when a job stops being about the bits you actually enjoy or are good at. I have no doubt Magnus is the best ever, but the vast majority of the effort in classical chess is spent away from the board. Slogging through an opponent and their team’s computer driven opening prep just isn’t super fun and probably isn’t why most people fall in love with chess. Anyone who has gone…

I believe that to people like Magnus it goes beyond "the job becoming boring" and his stance alludes directly to Fischer's disillusionment with the game – lacking in genuine and human creativity.

Sure, this is just cause and effect. Doing months of work for a World Championship cycle or slogging through 20 moves of supercomputer prep is boring _because_ it impoverishes the creative side of the game. I'm just saying a lot of people here probably recognise the same pattern between the magic of computing in their youth and the reality of a lot of enterprise tech jobs.

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#35

Post by debuggerson »

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of chess, and I don't know much about the different rules or playstyles. However, I’ve come across some of Magnus’s videos before. I admire his confidence in his abilities, but I know some people don’t like him, thinking he has a high ego and can come off as cocky at times. While many may be happy to see his recent loss to Rukesh, there’s no denying he’s been the best for so long. Maybe he hasn’t found someone who excites him in classical chess, someone at his level.

After all, being unbeatable can be a lonely place.

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#36

Post by genewitch »

mellosouls wrote: post #22

Old news tbh. Why do you think the current classical champion isn't Magnus? He's long said he's bored with it; the recent Gukesh slam-the-board viral moment has just resurfaced his frustration with it.

Didnt slam the board from what I saw, just the table, like in a cop show. And then nearly immediately stuck his hand out to shake in congratulation.

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#37

Post by whizzter »

Etheryte wrote: post #28
eterm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Magnus really knows if it was "incredibly boring" or he feared losing over the board, and even he might not really know himself. I think it's a shame for the sport that he wasn't willing to risk losing his WC title over the board, but make no mistake, he has lost his WC title regardless.

I'm not really sure this argument makes sense. He held the title for eight years and had numerous serious challengers over that time, so I wouldn't really say he didn't risk it over the board.

Iirc also this new Gukesh champion was only like 15 years old back then, yes he was spotted as an upcoming contender, but at that time there wasn't really any competitor that was close enough, iirc he had soundly beat the same guy twice in a row over in title matches at that point so at that time the competitor pool wasn't really too threatening.

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#38

Post by genewitch »

whizzter wrote: post #30
dismalaf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess was far more fun 20+ years ago. Before everyone had a supercomputer-powered chess engine in their hands... While studying openings was a thing, it still felt like there was room for improvisation and tactics. Now playing feels like a chore and more about rote memorization than actually playing a game.

I wonder if it'd be better or worse to scale timelimits? Say once ratings are over 1500, the lowest ranked players rating is used to calculate the time-limits of the game. A player at or below 1500 still has the same times (to let us amateurs consider a bit) but scale so that once players approach 3000 in ranking the speed basically becomes rapid or blitz. If even pros make mistakes at that level, it should get rid o…

Isn't speed chess already a thing? Is this a different idea?

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#39

Post by neom »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #29
neom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't play or know anything about Chess so I went to look up your comment, I presume it's about this gent: https://www.chess.com/blog/Mx_Nat/why-bobby-fischer-hated-ch... I read the above and it made me feel he was annoyed that Chess is a strategic zero sum game? "preparation and memorization than pure skill and innovation" - I think (at least in the zero sum strategy game I love) - prep + data IS the skill and inn…

> he was annoyed that Chess is a strategic zero sum game? No, he's complaining about the depth of the decision tree at the start of the game.

I understand, but isn't the opening decision tree depth IS the zero sum nature playing out?? the depth of the opening decision tree exactly what you'd expect in a zero sum strategic game? In any highly competitive zero sum environment (poker, business, etc.), players will inevitably explore and optimize every available edge, ESPECIALLY preparation? That was the fun of it I thought? Any arms race in opening theory is a natural consequence of the zero sum structure... if memorizing 25 moves gives you an edge over someone who memorized 23, the competitive pressure forces everyone deeper into preparation?

Re: Magnus Carlsen might walk away from classical chess

#40

Post by globular-toast »

This is the main reason I don't like games or sports. It's fun when everyone is new to the game, but the moment you get people practising and studying outside of the game it becomes work. Some people just have a higher threshold for this than others, it seems.
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