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What if you could do it all over? (2020)

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Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#101

Post by ty6853 »

apsurd wrote: post #98
ty6853 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find discussions of selfishness interesting in the context of a biological imperative. Raising kids mostly feels to me like I have a horrible heroin addiction. Loads of cash and time, reduced access to jobs, increased risk of intrusion by authorities and I struggle to see any personal benefit but lots of personal losses. Nonetheless my brain has tricked me somehow into it, at some basic biological level, and it see…

This sounds like the free will argument. we're just complex receptors to stimuli, we don't choose anything, we receive inputs and react accordingly. "it's just biology" in this sense there's no discussion on why humans chooses kids or heroin, or taking a shit. The answer is "they don't" so this isn't about kids. you've made up your mind about all reality.

>in this sense there's no discussion on why humans chooses kids or heroin, or taking a shit. The answer is "they don't"

This is false equivalence, taking heroin isn't a biologicals imperative, reproduction is obligatory to life.

My thesis is humans have no real choice at a population level not to reproduce, your fallaciously equate that to a reductionist view on everything else including things not obligatory to life.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#102

Post by card_zero »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #63
futureshock wrote: post #12

I think the fantasy of going back hides the reality that new possibilities are always stretched out ahead. I have lived many lives. New careers, new cities, new countries, new friends, new families. By my count I’ve lived 14 iterations of life and counting. New lives are always beckoning. After awhile you get good a recognizing the ones worth stepping into.

It's true that life can always evolve and change, new opportunities open, responsibilities appear, etc. But in other ways it's not true. For example, there's no way to be 19 again and be in college, date the person who, looking back was clearly into you. Study the thing you really wanted to study (not what you thought would be best for your career), etc. I think the fantasy of going back isn't about being unable to c…

Central to the plot of Back to the Future Part II (for some reason not referenced in the New Yorker) is the sports almanac with information about future results. Any fantasy of going back and getting it right hinges on this kind of transfer of knowledge back into the earlier situation. The problem is then whether the information is subtle enough to be interesting, that is, to prevent the fantasy from devolving into a mere cheat to get rich by knowing things in advance. In practice the time traveller would at least attempt to invest early in bitcoin, learn the skills that will be in demand, befriend the awkward person who is going to be cool and successful later, and other cheaty stuff.

I suppose a better fantasy would involve going back into a similar but rearranged situation, with all the variables and trends changed to prevent predictions.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#103

Post by meany »

One thing I wonder is that - assuming no extreme personal calamity - I would be just as happy/sad/depressed no matter what life I had led. How much of our inner sense of well being is determined by outward life circumstances. Living in the first world and working in the tech industry, I live better than 99% of the people that ever lived, including all my ancestors. What’s really crazy is that I’m not insanely happy all the time with my incredible good fortune. It seems that no matter what I got from life - I’d calibrate back to where I am now.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#104

Post by apsurd »

ty6853 wrote: post #101
apsurd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like the free will argument. we're just complex receptors to stimuli, we don't choose anything, we receive inputs and react accordingly. "it's just biology" in this sense there's no discussion on why humans chooses kids or heroin, or taking a shit. The answer is "they don't" so this isn't about kids. you've made up your mind about all reality.

>in this sense there's no discussion on why humans chooses kids or heroin, or taking a shit. The answer is "they don't" This is false equivalence, taking heroin isn't a biologicals imperative, reproduction is obligatory to life. My thesis is humans have no real choice at a population level not to reproduce, your fallaciously equate that to a reductionist view on everything else including things not obligatory to life…

The way I understand your position is "we're wired to do/choose X"

The big discussion is why have kids. And your position then is we're wired to, just like taking a dump.

It's not a good argument in my mind because the position voids every decision. There are no decisions. No free will. We can discuss that, i suppose.

edit: saw your update. I don't know I think it tracks. Asking why does someone do something implies a choice, to argue it's not a choice is a different argument. A good one even, but it's different.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#105

Post by ryandrake »

I believe that our "success trajectory" is something like 10-20% our own choices and 80-90% pedigree / where we start from. And probably some percentage of "other luck." So I don't really think too hard about doing it over because I don't feel like I've made many really bad decisions. I've gotten about as far as I could have reasonably expected, given being born to a family of school teachers living in a rural middle of nowhere, where success meant getting a decent job at the local mill. No do-over would make my father a rich, well-connected businessman. No do-over would get me into Phillips Exeter Academy as a high schooler and then Harvard or Yale. No do-over would land me in Goldman Sachs post-graduation. So I really don't dwell on what might have been.

If I could go way farther back in time and bend my entire family tree's trajectory such that I started out on 3rd base, that would be a different story.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#106

Post by ty6853 »

apsurd wrote: post #104
ty6853 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in this sense there's no discussion on why humans chooses kids or heroin, or taking a shit. The answer is "they don't" This is false equivalence, taking heroin isn't a biologicals imperative, reproduction is obligatory to life. My thesis is humans have no real choice at a population level not to reproduce, your fallaciously equate that to a reductionist view on everything else including things not obligatory to life…

The way I understand your position is "we're wired to do/choose X" The big discussion is why have kids. And your position then is we're wired to, just like taking a dump. It's not a good argument in my mind because the position voids every decision. There are no decisions. No free will. We can discuss that, i suppose. edit: saw your update. I don't know I think it tracks. Asking why does someone do something implies…

My discussion was this:

>I find discussions of selfishness interesting in the context of a biological imperative.

Why is an interesting discussion, but not identical here. The charge I was responding to was specifically addressing selfishness.

I am totally open to the idea one can act selfishly both under the pretext that there is or isn't free will, which moots any attempt you're making here to shoehorn the argument into that.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#107

Post by SkyBelow »

card_zero wrote: post #102
FinnLobsien wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that life can always evolve and change, new opportunities open, responsibilities appear, etc. But in other ways it's not true. For example, there's no way to be 19 again and be in college, date the person who, looking back was clearly into you. Study the thing you really wanted to study (not what you thought would be best for your career), etc. I think the fantasy of going back isn't about being unable to c…

Central to the plot of Back to the Future Part II (for some reason not referenced in the New Yorker) is the sports almanac with information about future results. Any fantasy of going back and getting it right hinges on this kind of transfer of knowledge back into the earlier situation. The problem is then whether the information is subtle enough to be interesting, that is, to prevent the fantasy from devolving into a…

It is an interesting thought experience, what would you do differently if you have your current wisdom, but not your current knowledge. This isn't a clean distinction, because people see different boundaries on what is wisdom and what is knowledge, but I think it is an interesting thought experience all the same.

If I had my current wisdom but not my current knowledge, there are still some big differences in what I would do. Not on the level of bitcoin as that seems fully on the knowledge side, but things like getting healthy habits started earlier, waste less time on certain entertainment pursuits, and take certain opportunities much more serious even when they didn't align with my expectations.

Sometimes I wonder what I would do different today if I had the wisdom of me from 20 years in the future.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#108

Post by kxter »

If I could do it all over again, I would say screw the startup, the money, the IPO and all that crap. I'd run away to an island and spend maximum time with my first partner - who I lost far too soon in life. No money will ever bring them back. The time lost was not worth it. It's the biggest regret in my life that can still bring me to tears as a write this. I would give up everything to go back and tell my younger self to change that one fateful decision.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#109

Post by more_corn »

anonzzzies wrote: post #23
jmathai wrote: post #6

Family and children eliminated thoughts of my “unlived” lives. Life is hard. Focusing on gratitude helps me be thankful for what I have instead of thinking about what may have been.

Never needed that: I like life because I know I will die soon and nothing I do matters. That is the thing I would've liked to know earlier.

The counterpoint to this is quite important. Sure, maybe nothing matters without someone there to make it matter. We are the only creatures in the known universe who believe in abstract universals (love, hope, truth, beauty, meaning as well as the negative abstract universals). Which means things only matter insofar as they matter to us. But obviously things matter to us.

If/when we disappear, meaning itself might get erased from the universe. In that sense nothing means anything.

In another sense, if we are the only source of meaning that’s potentially the most rare and precious thing imaginable.

Giving a shit is literally our superpower. So give a shit about something because meaning only exists when we bring it into being. And it only exists as long as we make it exist. Far from being depressing this might be the most uplifting thought possible. Because it makes you fucking matter. As much as you want to matter. (And as little)

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#110

Post by nonameiguess »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #63
futureshock wrote: post #12

I think the fantasy of going back hides the reality that new possibilities are always stretched out ahead. I have lived many lives. New careers, new cities, new countries, new friends, new families. By my count I’ve lived 14 iterations of life and counting. New lives are always beckoning. After awhile you get good a recognizing the ones worth stepping into.

It's true that life can always evolve and change, new opportunities open, responsibilities appear, etc. But in other ways it's not true. For example, there's no way to be 19 again and be in college, date the person who, looking back was clearly into you. Study the thing you really wanted to study (not what you thought would be best for your career), etc. I think the fantasy of going back isn't about being unable to c…

Similar to the other top-level reply, without perfect foreknowledge, there is no way to know you're "getting it right this time." I dated the person into me and studied what I loved. We got divorced and I ultimately ended up with a person I didn't meet until I was 30. I had to go back to school and change careers later in life because the job prospects sucked for what I loved.

Given I ultimately ended up in a good place anyway, I don't even regret anything. The only thing you can't come back from is death. As long as none of your bad decisions kill you, I don't see much to fret about.

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