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What if you could do it all over? (2020)

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Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#81

Post by BadCookie »

mikestew wrote: post #70
xyzzy9563 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone cares more about themselves than continuing their family line or the human species, it’s arguably more selfish.

…continuing their family line… I’m not Henry VIII, just some rube from Indiana. Our family is nothing special. …or the human species Nor is this some post-apocalyptic future where children are scarce.

Children kind of are scarce, though? Most countries aren’t reproducing at replacement levels. Were that to continue forever, the human population would go to zero.

School districts around me are closing schools because there aren’t enough kids to fill them.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#82

Post by gchamonlive »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #76
jebarker wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes when I'm struggling with the day to day mundane aspects of early years parenting I reframe it as the work of continuing the human race. Somehow makes it easier to keep pushing on as something so significant _should_ be challenging.

That's just your ego talking. The human race will be just fine with or without you raising kids. Our great great ancestor monkeys and fishes didn't raise their children to push their species to centuries further. They just existed and it's what they do as part of their nature. Trying to project meaning to it just ego at play.

Trying desperately not to project meaning into it, running from your ego... is still just the ego talking, but now through the denial of it, such is the fundamental nature of the ego for the human.

True overcoming of the ego is where it doesn't even bother you if things have meaning or not, since there is no separation between your body and the rest of the world. True overcoming of ego is indistriguishable from true giving-in to ego. Is the ultimate act of letting go.

After this you can choose to raise kids, choose to pursue a career in tech and a hobby in arts. Just because it won't matter you will do it, because now you can choose meaning if you wish. Just because it doesn't matter it does matter. You become the creator.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#83

Post by ty6853 »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #73
xyzzy9563 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone cares more about themselves than continuing their family line or the human species, it’s arguably more selfish.

It's also selfish to bring humans that goes through immense suffering in their life so that you get meaning out of life or get joy from kids.

I find discussions of selfishness interesting in the context of a biological imperative.

Raising kids mostly feels to me like I have a horrible heroin addiction. Loads of cash and time, reduced access to jobs, increased risk of intrusion by authorities and I struggle to see any personal benefit but lots of personal losses. Nonetheless my brain has tricked me somehow into it, at some basic biological level, and it seems this trickery at least at the population level is a necessary condition of life to the point free will is a total joke to consider as part of the equation.

At an individual maybe there is some selfish choice but at a population level having a kid is about the biological equivalent of taking a shit -- people don't take a shit because they are selfish they do it because it is biologically required and humans simply evolved to match this requirement.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#84

Post by Arubis »

xyzzy9563 wrote: post #52
Conscat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will be childfree, so will my sister. Both of us are queer. As far as I know, all my three cousins (two of whom are queer) feel the same. There's no reason to expect that your children will want to reproduce, and it is pretty selfish to project your own dissatisfaction with life onto another human that way.

If someone cares more about themselves than continuing their family line or the human species, it’s arguably more selfish.

You’re projecting your values. There’s very strong arguments to be made in both directions without being responsible for a family line (however you might choose to define that) or an entire species.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#85

Post by hshshshshsh »

gchamonlive wrote: post #82
hshshshshsh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just your ego talking. The human race will be just fine with or without you raising kids. Our great great ancestor monkeys and fishes didn't raise their children to push their species to centuries further. They just existed and it's what they do as part of their nature. Trying to project meaning to it just ego at play.

Trying desperately not to project meaning into it, running from your ego... is still just the ego talking, but now through the denial of it, such is the fundamental nature of the ego for the human. True overcoming of the ego is where it doesn't even bother you if things have meaning or not, since there is no separation between your body and the rest of the world. True overcoming of ego is indistriguishable from true…

How do I be free? I have tasted the freedom for a short time but I can't sustain it. A new ego has been formed after seeing through the old ego. And it also claims to be free of ego.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#86

Post by [deleted] »

ty6853 wrote: post #83
hshshshshsh wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also selfish to bring humans that goes through immense suffering in their life so that you get meaning out of life or get joy from kids.

I find discussions of selfishness interesting in the context of a biological imperative. Raising kids mostly feels to me like I have a horrible heroin addiction. Loads of cash and time, reduced access to jobs, increased risk of intrusion by authorities and I struggle to see any personal benefit but lots of personal losses. Nonetheless my brain has tricked me somehow into it, at some basic biological level, and it see…

[deleted]

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#87

Post by verzali »

rwmj wrote: post #7

If you had perfect future knowledge (which is what this article is really about) you wouldn't want to invent Slack (or Google), which lets face it would have been a ton of work with a very uncertain outcome. You'd want to invest in Slack / Google at some early stage, do no work whatsoever, and enjoy the proceeds.

It would be a lot faster to buy a lot of lottery tickets, or become a professional gambler. Once you've done that you'd have enough to make meaningful investments for long term returns. Or to short the stock market before certain big events...

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#88

Post by interroboink »

y-curious wrote: post #30
anonzzzies wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never needed that: I like life because I know I will die soon and nothing I do matters. That is the thing I would've liked to know earlier.

So, why continue living? The nihilist pit is something I recommend you claw your way out of, ASAP.

This is one of those interesting galvanizing points where different people's POVs are fascinating to me.

To abuse your metaphor a bit...

I get the sense that some people see the "nihilist pit" (or somesuch) as a dark scary thing (it is). Maybe they have gotten lost in it a little bit, did not like the experience, got out, and so advise everyone else to avoid it, too.

Other people have spent more time in the pit, whether by choice or the lack of it, gone deep down, and found the bottom. And that can be a wonderful, freeing feeling, to get to the end of that hard journey.

I guess for my own part, at the bottom of my pit, I found that there is something to stand on down there. It was an absolute relief to find, life-affirming, and has helped me ever since.

YMMV of course (: Different people are different.

Re: What if you could do it all over? (2020)

#89

Post by gchamonlive »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #85
gchamonlive wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying desperately not to project meaning into it, running from your ego... is still just the ego talking, but now through the denial of it, such is the fundamental nature of the ego for the human. True overcoming of the ego is where it doesn't even bother you if things have meaning or not, since there is no separation between your body and the rest of the world. True overcoming of ego is indistriguishable from true…

How do I be free? I have tasted the freedom for a short time but I can't sustain it. A new ego has been formed after seeing through the old ego. And it also claims to be free of ego.

I'm not a guide, just a messenger. I'm also just a person.

I can't tell you how you go about your pursuit of freedom, or the pursuit of what it means to live free.

I can tell you what it means to me. I'm free when I can choose everyday to pursue what it means to live free. I'm also free when I choose the limitations in this pursuit, because I don't want the anxiety of the hyperpositive when everything is possible. I'm also free when I consider the other, my kin and when I choose to serve them. I'm also free when I ask for strength to change the things in my life that I can, and for wisdom to accept those things I can't change.

Wish you luck in your journey.

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