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How to Read a Novel

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31–40 of 64 posts

Re: How to Read a Novel

#31
post #18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically and exposure to diverse viewpoints thanks to hyper connectedness likely make it possible to go deeper.

> breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically Provide one tiny bit of evidence for this. Do you seriously think that Shakespeare (for e.g.) did not have a profound understanding of human psychology?

If he did it's not shown in his writing, or really any pre-20th century writers really.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#32
post #18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically and exposure to diverse viewpoints thanks to hyper connectedness likely make it possible to go deeper.

> breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically Provide one tiny bit of evidence for this. Do you seriously think that Shakespeare (for e.g.) did not have a profound understanding of human psychology?

there's a reason Harold Bloom titled his book about Shakespeare The Invention of the Human

Re: How to Read a Novel

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

What's a good novel from the last 20 years? Genuine question. Looking back at everything I've read, it all has been older than that. I don't really pay attention to novel news so it's more like I only read stuff I've heard about in the past.

I am absolutely not trying to sustain the other commenter's claim that modern fiction is better lol. I also don't tend to stay on top of contemporary fiction, a lot of stuff gets hyped and well reviewed but just isn't that great. Or it had a lot of resonance for the specific time it was written that lessens as time passes. And of course the extreme selection bias, not all good books "survive" but most of the ones that do are good on at least some qualities.

But there is definitely still excellent fiction being written now. The last sumurai by helen dewitt, or the gray house by mariam petrosyan I would place with the likes of middlemarch and anna karenina.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#34

the single takeaway from this book ad of a post: the CEO of Stripe claims to have read 10 novels/yr. Which is either a boast of how much free time he has or how he skimmed through some major novels. Third option: a lie.

My notes say I read ~30 books last year (not counting kids books =P). I don't feel like I spend that much time reading, I just ran out of good stuff on netflix. And the kids require less attention than they did.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#35

> But my admiration for Middlemarch and Bleak House goes beyond their portrayal of the psychological interiority of their characters. [...] Both novels succeed at something else: they invite us to think across multiple scales of experience—and to make causal and associative connections between those different layers. To toss another into the ring, I can't think of any novel I've read that could rival The Brothers Kar…

I agree that Dostoyevsky's psychological insights were profound. Maybe it doesn't exhibit the same psychological depths, but morally and philosophically I would also recommend Robert Musil's The Man Without Qualities. It is still psychologically profound (although perhaps not at Dostoyevsky's level) and it provides a very detailed picture of society in turn-of-the-century (20th century) Austria. It's one of the greatest novels about ideas I've come across.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#36
The post does not answer 'How to Read a Novel'.

Most of the post is devoted to 'Why I think fiction is useful'.

The author's answer: vicarious learning.

Author answers how to maybe rank and choose a book: Book that provides recognizable experience of human decision making is better than book that does not.

Which is fine. But not 'How to Read a Novel'.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#37
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically Provide one tiny bit of evidence for this. Do you seriously think that Shakespeare (for e.g.) did not have a profound understanding of human psychology?

If he did it's not shown in his writing, or really any pre-20th century writers really.

this is bait

Re: How to Read a Novel

#38
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically Provide one tiny bit of evidence for this. Do you seriously think that Shakespeare (for e.g.) did not have a profound understanding of human psychology?

If he did it's not shown in his writing, or really any pre-20th century writers really.

have you read any pre-20th C writers? Or any novels or plays at all?

Re: How to Read a Novel

#39

the single takeaway from this book ad of a post: the CEO of Stripe claims to have read 10 novels/yr. Which is either a boast of how much free time he has or how he skimmed through some major novels. Third option: a lie.

Are we really in an age where reading 10 novels a year is considered unbelievable?

I don't not believe it, but some may. I suspect the average person doesn't read. (I'm even thinking just of British people, if you think that claim globally is easy due to whole countries with lower literacy/readership.)

Re: How to Read a Novel

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re nuts. I read “Crime and Punishment” a couple years ago, and went in knowing literally nothing about it except that it was famous. It was astonishingly good. It felt fresh, modern, and claustrophobically suspenseful in a way I wouldn’t have believed possible for a book that age. If you don’t like it, fine. Preferences are a thing and we don’t all have to enjoy the same stuff. But to dismiss it as obsolete or ou…

I might've conveyed myself poorly. Never said Dostoevsky wasn't great or not a relevant read! I was just reacting to the OP who seemed to say it's still the best ever. But we've improved everything, art, kites, the wheel. It's the same for literature, but you do have to get pretty deep into lit to see though. The main criticism for I have for Dostoevsky is that he's overdramatic. Yes it's great fun fiction and a vast…

Alright, I see what you mean now. Thanks for the explanation! Whether or not I agree, that’s a lot more nuanced than my earlier interpretation of your opinion.

I like the religious lens of his work, though. I don’t personally identify with it, especially his particular brand of it, but that’s part of the work’s appeal to me. Similarly, I’m not an existentialist but it was neat to see the world that way through “L'Étranger” (even though Camus rejected the label).

But I do want to push back against the idea that we know vastly more about human nature today than in the 1800s. We’ve been formally studying western philosophy, intently and seriously, for at least 2,500 years. On a timeline between Plato and today, “C&P” was written 94% of the way to the finish line. We might have better models of some details now, but we’ve had a pretty solid knowledge of the fundamentals for an awfully long time. By analogy, Monet didn’t know jack about quantum physics, but he famously explored the subtleties of the appearance of light in nature.

I surely don’t want to take the position that older = better, either. You’re right: we’re still learning, practicing, and getting better! There’s still an awful lot of gold to be found in earlier works, though.

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