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How to Read a Novel

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Re: How to Read a Novel

#21

Post by ednite »

Steven Johnson encourages us to think across multiple scales of experience when reading 19th-century novels. I agree and I’d argue Don Quixote, written in the early 1600s, was the prototype.

Don Quixote has always been one of my favorite books because it genuinely entertains me on a deep level. Every time I return to it, I’m pulled into a world that’s funny, sad, strange, and timeless.

Long before modern psychology, Cervantes captured the messy, conflicted inner life of someone trying to make sense of a changing world.

Books like this still matter, not just as stories, but as a way to practice seeing the world in layers, something that helps us stay grounded and think more clearly in today’s fast-moving, story-saturated world.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#23

Post by zettapwn »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #6
jihadjihad wrote: post #4

> But my admiration for Middlemarch and Bleak House goes beyond their portrayal of the psychological interiority of their characters. [...] Both novels succeed at something else: they invite us to think across multiple scales of experience—and to make causal and associative connections between those different layers. To toss another into the ring, I can't think of any novel I've read that could rival The Brothers Kar…

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

[dead]

Re: How to Read a Novel

#24

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

kstrauser wrote: post #20
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

You’re nuts. I read “Crime and Punishment” a couple years ago, and went in knowing literally nothing about it except that it was famous. It was astonishingly good. It felt fresh, modern, and claustrophobically suspenseful in a way I wouldn’t have believed possible for a book that age. If you don’t like it, fine. Preferences are a thing and we don’t all have to enjoy the same stuff. But to dismiss it as obsolete or ou…

I might've conveyed myself poorly. Never said Dostoevsky wasn't great or not a relevant read! I was just reacting to the OP who seemed to say it's still the best ever. But we've improved everything, art, kites, the wheel. It's the same for literature, but you do have to get pretty deep into lit to see though.

The main criticism for I have for Dostoevsky is that he's overdramatic. Yes it's great fun fiction and a vast improvement over the simpler, more idealized writing of much of his era, but some of the angst of his characters is simply cultural. He has a lot of religious influence in his work (which don't appeal to me as an atheist) and their struggles for the human soul is a symptom of his time. A Buddhist might say, just calm the fuck down man. Most people don't react to horrible situations by "crashing out", but via coping and rationalization and making the best of their situation, that's how you get consistent improvement and accrue generational uplift.

Later writers like Virginia Woolf is able to better integrate a variety of responses to suffering, post modernists like Tao Lin even gets overly detached (everyone hates post modernists). But I think the best novel about the human condition ever written, which handles the drama, but realistically, is probably by Elena Ferrante in 2011. I'm not highlighting any underrated work here lol, it's widely acclaimed, including called the best book of the 21st century by the NYT.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#25

Post by rererereferred »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #6
jihadjihad wrote: post #4

> But my admiration for Middlemarch and Bleak House goes beyond their portrayal of the psychological interiority of their characters. [...] Both novels succeed at something else: they invite us to think across multiple scales of experience—and to make causal and associative connections between those different layers. To toss another into the ring, I can't think of any novel I've read that could rival The Brothers Kar…

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

What's a good novel from the last 20 years? Genuine question. Looking back at everything I've read, it all has been older than that. I don't really pay attention to novel news so it's more like I only read stuff I've heard about in the past.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#26

Post by internet_points »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #24
kstrauser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re nuts. I read “Crime and Punishment” a couple years ago, and went in knowing literally nothing about it except that it was famous. It was astonishingly good. It felt fresh, modern, and claustrophobically suspenseful in a way I wouldn’t have believed possible for a book that age. If you don’t like it, fine. Preferences are a thing and we don’t all have to enjoy the same stuff. But to dismiss it as obsolete or ou…

I might've conveyed myself poorly. Never said Dostoevsky wasn't great or not a relevant read! I was just reacting to the OP who seemed to say it's still the best ever. But we've improved everything, art, kites, the wheel. It's the same for literature, but you do have to get pretty deep into lit to see though. The main criticism for I have for Dostoevsky is that he's overdramatic. Yes it's great fun fiction and a vast…

> Most people don't react to horrible situations by "crashing out", but via coping and rationalization and making the best of their situation, that's how you get consistent improvement and accrue generational uplift.

Most people I've known do not react rationally to horrible situations. Or even to good situations.

Re: How to Read a Novel

#27

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

bowsamic wrote: post #10
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

I don't like Dostoevsky but this is an insane take. Art doesn't just "get better" over time and depth and characterisation isn't everything either. Homer's Odyssey is still an incredible and fulfilling read. Literature is not some kind of engineering discipline though a lot of new writers seem to be almost like analytic philosophers in that they think newer = better while having some kind of sterile and formalistic u…

depth and characterization isn't everything but it's the discussion chosen by the OP, he seemed to imply that Dostoevsky had the best psychological interiority and "multiple scales of experience".

Re: How to Read a Novel

#28

Post by internet_points »

voisin wrote: post #9
almostgotcaught wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird take - how exactly could literature improve "in depth and characterization"? What new "technology" has been made available to authors that enables them to create deeper characters?

Not OP, but breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically and exposure to diverse viewpoints thanks to hyper connectedness likely make it possible to go deeper.

or maybe hyper connectedness is just making writers more distracted, making it harder to see deeply into human relations, feelings and thoughts

Re: How to Read a Novel

#29

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

rererereferred wrote: post #25
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

What's a good novel from the last 20 years? Genuine question. Looking back at everything I've read, it all has been older than that. I don't really pay attention to novel news so it's more like I only read stuff I've heard about in the past.

I recommended a book in my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44181274

Re: How to Read a Novel

#30

Post by CesareBorgia »

rererereferred wrote: post #25
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.

What's a good novel from the last 20 years? Genuine question. Looking back at everything I've read, it all has been older than that. I don't really pay attention to novel news so it's more like I only read stuff I've heard about in the past.

This is a great list: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueLit/comments/1fwciah/truelits_1...
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