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Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

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Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#81
post #3

Terrible article. Calling histograms awful, based on nothing more than an opinion. Then trying to conclude that some convoluted scatter plot system makes more sense is laughable. Not to mention, this system is still just a star rating system. This would be no different than having two histograms side by side.. assuming, of course, that you'd even want to rate different aspects of the same thing. I can't even imagine…

My point was you can't create a scatter plot from a single dimension of data, and that histograms are awful because they don't allow you to see patterns. But of course you're right, it is just my opinion.

You should consider throwing up some histogram pairs of the data shown on the scatter plots.

It looks like they would still give a good picture of the data, as the trends are mostly linear.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#82

The old Latin proverb "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3... might in this context be paraphrased to "Who is rating the raters?" The hope in any online rating system is that enough people will come forward to rate something that you care about so that the people who have crazy opinions will be mere outliers among the majority of raters who share your well info…

Relative ratings are more useful. Everyone uses their own scale, but their ratings are relative to the constant movie. I want to see how people rated a movie relative to other movies I've watched.

N people rated this better than X movie, but less than Y movie.

Ranking movies can be easy. Show 5 movie posters instead of 5 stars or have an auto-complete field for this movie is up there with:.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#83

Terrible article. Calling histograms awful, based on nothing more than an opinion. Then trying to conclude that some convoluted scatter plot system makes more sense is laughable. Not to mention, this system is still just a star rating system. This would be no different than having two histograms side by side.. assuming, of course, that you'd even want to rate different aspects of the same thing. I can't even imagine…

Terrible comment. I found the article interesting. As someone who has played around with many different types of rating systems, I applaud their effort at trying something different. Sounds like you area little too emotionally invested in histograms. I'm not even going to ask why.

I'll meet you halfway. It's a terrible comment about a terrible article. I agree that it's laudable to try to invent an improved version of online ratings, but this article wasn't effective in convicing me that they've succeeded.

Their argument that historgrams are just.awful. (I didn't care for the extra periods) seems to have two components: 1. asserting that historgrams are bad 2. showing us 3 histograms and saying they tell you the same thing about all 3 movies, when in fact there is a very clear and important difference between the histograms.

Its completely obvious from inspection ("people are really good at seeing patterns") that Starship Troopers has a much lower percentage of 5 star ratings than the other two, and a much higher fraction of 0 star ratings. It also appears to me that the Fifth Element has a higher fraction of 4 or 5 star ratings, and is probably the most apprciated of the 3 films, although Blade Runner is fairly close.

If you are going to cherry a set of 3 specific films to make your point, you should be sure to at least pick 3 films that support your point instead of refuting it.

We then learn about their hypothesis that while 5-star rating system sucks, a system that relies on two correlated 5-star ratings is great. They demonstrate this by using the two question system to draw the exact same conclusion I drew from the histograms of the 1 question ratings.

I would've liked some sort of objective attempt to compare the two rating systems. Perhaps it would be possible to measure how frequently the two question system leads people to make a better choice than the one question system, or at least some sort of statistical wonkery that would purport to show me that the two question system in practice draws more distinctions than the one question system. Unfortunatley we only get this one rather uninspired example ("watch this if you’re in the mood for something really good").

They also didn't address why "would you re-watch this film" is a better choice than any other second question. There are attempts to justify it being a good question, but no real evidence that other questions were tried and didn't perform.

Finally, the thing that really irked me was that this proposed system doesn't seem to do anything to address most of the actual problems with the regular 5 star system, namely that people who feel really strongly about something are more likely to rate so that most ratings tend towards the extremes, and that without context we have no idea why someone rated something a 5 instead of a 1. Those problems now exist along two dimensions instead of one.

I see this less as an article and more as an advertisement hitching a ride on an xkcd comic.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#85
Why don't rating systems just give a simple yes/no question to the reader. In the case of rating a movie, just ask "Would you watch this again?" or in the case of purchasing a product from Amazon, "Would you purchase this item again?"

I'd rather a boolean system than one where someone's 4-star rating is different than my 4-star rating. Whenever I see a multi-star rating system, I remember back to a prof I once had that said "The top grade is B+. A's are reserved for God." Albeit disgusting, it taught me that everyone has a different rating scale.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#86

Terrible article. Calling histograms awful, based on nothing more than an opinion. Then trying to conclude that some convoluted scatter plot system makes more sense is laughable. Not to mention, this system is still just a star rating system. This would be no different than having two histograms side by side.. assuming, of course, that you'd even want to rate different aspects of the same thing. I can't even imagine…

It seems to me like "rewatchability" isn't really a useful metric when I am looking for a new-to-me movie to watch.

And when I am looking at user rankings for a movie, almost by definition I am only concerned with rankings for movies I haven't yet seen, since I already have an internal self-ranking for a movie I've seen already.

Histograms are extremely useful for knowing the spread of rankings, which the scatter plot also illuminates.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#87
The problem is people do not take the time to rate products (movies in this case) unless they are notably good or notably bad. I believe Rotten Tomatoes has the most realistically accurate system for rating movies. Either you think someone should see the movie, or shouldn't. If the majority of people are on the fence, then it will get a rating around 50%.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#88

The old Latin proverb "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3... might in this context be paraphrased to "Who is rating the raters?" The hope in any online rating system is that enough people will come forward to rate something that you care about so that the people who have crazy opinions will be mere outliers among the majority of raters who share your well info…

Re: Your watchmen quote

I think Amazon's "Was this rating helpful (Yes/No)?" provides a good filter for ratings. A lot of mindlessly negative reviews get filtered out by the users who come along afterwards and rate the rating in their own self-interest.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#89
I'm not sure why I would care about the "rewatchable" metric. I only look at reviews for a movie I haven't seen. If I've seen it I can decide myself if I'd enjoy watching again. So subtracting that you are left with the normal star system rating.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#90
Surprised to see no mention of the website Criticker. Been using it for a few years now (ever since I cancelled Netflix and missed the recommendation engine).

Criticker's rating system is out of 100 points but for each user it scales ratings into tiers (deciles) 1-10. So for someone like me who watches lots of movies that I sort of know I'm gonna like (thanks to Criticker!), most of my ratings end up in the 70 to 100 range, but I still have 5 tiers in that range. The wide range allows the system to adapt to a user's biased view of the scale. Also plenty of users simply keep their rankings from 0-10.

Criticker gives recommendations in two ways. First it predicts my ranking for a movie. So I can just browse unwatched movies and filter them however I like and then sort by how Criticker expects I will rate them. It is actually scary how predictable I am.

The other method of recommendations is to browse users who have very high correlation to my rankings and see what movies they've ranked highly which I have not seen. This might be the best way to find movies. It also seems to be the key to how the expected ratings I mentioned above are computed.

No doubt one of the things that keeps Criticker running so well is a community of serious film buffs. It makes it easy to find movies I would have never heard of otherwise (foreign, limited release, shorts).

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