Live data from Hacker News

Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

goodfil.ms

71–80 of 165 posts

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#71

The old Latin proverb "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3... might in this context be paraphrased to "Who is rating the raters?" The hope in any online rating system is that enough people will come forward to rate something that you care about so that the people who have crazy opinions will be mere outliers among the majority of raters who share your well info…

> The problem with any commercial website with ratings (Amazon, Yelp, etc., etc.) is that there is HUGE incentive to game the ratings.

While I agree that this is a problem, I think a bigger problem is a simple matter of scale:

Amazon is huge, and many people buy things, but they don't split reviews and ratings by what kind of person is rating them. If they wanted to make an improvement, why not show me only ratings and reviews by people who are similar to me? They have tons of data about me and other people who use the service, so it should be possible for them to say "people like you rated this on average a 4, but everyone in the world rates it an average of 2.5."

That's much easier than having to read all the reviews and decide if the person is in my demographic or whether I agree with their review.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#72
You can't rate the rater's because that's all subjective. This is where a nice machine learning algorithm that looks at your scores and find people who have similar rating trends. It would then give weight to other peoples ratings based on your ratings.

Thus is born a system in which everyone is happy. The site will get more ratings because people want the algorithm to be better and it needs more data for that.

The movies will be happy because this points to legal ways to find movies.

We'll all be happy because it's a complex solution to a complex problem and yet it can still be solved in an elegant and visually stimulating way. (I.E. you could color code the reviewers who are more likely to be similar to yours)

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#73
Ratings leave something to be desired for sure. You can tell if something is worth checking out if it's highly rated but other than that they aren't tremendously useful.

That being said I'm not a fan of the goodfil.ms graph at all. Why do I care about how rewatchable someone else thinks a movie is? Do I want to watch it again? I would know because I'd have seen it.

I think rewatchable is the wrong term. Fun is what you're looking for. Major Payne is a fun movie. It is incredibly rewatchable but I don't need a website to tell me that. I could use a website to point me to it if I haven't seen it before.

I think the site is on the fringe of something important though. There are multiple ways to rate a movie, and mood plays a huge role in what you want to watch at any given moment.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#74

The old Latin proverb "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3... might in this context be paraphrased to "Who is rating the raters?" The hope in any online rating system is that enough people will come forward to rate something that you care about so that the people who have crazy opinions will be mere outliers among the majority of raters who share your well info…

I'd just like to point out that bias feeds into written reviews as well. I may think good service is someone not refilling my water every 5 seconds where as you might think it's that your food didn't get out in under 10 minutes.

While words do express the point better, this rating system is a step in the right direction.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#75
If something has 1000 ratings but is only 3.5 stars whereas something with 1 rating and 5 stars, what does that say about the average? Not much. It just says there's more people to rate something and have an opinion about it. Getting people to rate something is difficult in and of itself and only the people who are on the love/hate spectrum will rate something.

I like the histograms as it reveals a little into the rating. After all, if a single person gave it 1 star and everyone else rated it 3 or more, the average is likely skewed because of that one person who is clearly "gaming" the system because they weren't happy.

I think ratings should take into account intent. If multiple people are rating it 1 star, then clearly it should be weighted downward. However, if a single person out of 100 people gave it 1 star, I don't think the average should be weighted evenly. It's a difficult problem to solve and XKCD is just making a joke.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#76
Polls predict poorly because everyone says what they think they should say, instead of what they actually believe.

Ratings systems are worse - they are self-selective, so most adequately-satisfied folks will not take part.

A better system than both, would be to somehow extract ratings from folks behavior. Did they read the whole article? How long did they dwell on each part? Did they return to it more than once? Stuff like that.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#77
Average rating as a measure of "goodness" is wrought with statistical problems. Without the context of other statistical modes, looking at mean is pretty useless. However, people don't want to look at summary statistics for each item (mean, median, mode, std/var, skew, etc). So we try to come up with scalar metrics that capture "goodness" or "coolness" or whatever. Popularity (how ever you define it) is a common one to use. Here's a good comparison of popularity models: http://blog.linkibol.com/2010/05/07/how-to-build-a-popularit.... In the past I've been pretty happy with "Bayesian average" - it's simple to implement and gives good results.

But if you really want to dig into it, you have to consider all kinds of stuff like bimodal distribution of ratings (controversial items), rater quality/consistency, age or ratings, etc, etc.

It's really not as simple as you'd think!

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#78
Super interesting post. We created SquidCube (squidcube.com) to help companies build out a rating system that instead of being shown publicly, went straight to the company.

We're curious to see how people respond to rating/giving feedback when it doesn't show up in their social media stream . Will it be more honest because it is direct feedback?

This post has sparked some new ideas for me on developing a new rating system beyond nero, stars, etc.

Re: Why Ratings Systems Don't Work

#80

Scatter plots are definitely more informative, once one gives them a couple of minutes to get used to them. However, I think you're shooting at the wrong target and your solution would exacerbate the root problem: bias. The first time I really noticed the problem was when I published my own Flash game on Kongregate and started paying closer attention to the ratings. That led me to examine my own rating habits and I c…

Obviously, it doesn't explain everything from your example, but Kongregate rewards users for voting for games (1 point per rating in their levelling scheme). This will have some impact on how people vote.
Post reply on HN