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Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

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Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#51

Post by parpfish »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #26
bee_rider wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pithy but actually I think it benefits too much from not defining with it is. I mean, it is a game, they are a game studio, if they “can” make a fun game with a reasonable amount of developer effort, they should. If they can’t they shouldn’t. The quote relies on there being some horrible side effect of creating the thing without thinking whether or not they should do it. I think there’s no chance that this go…

I grew up during the age of fads, and "Open World" is very much one of them that keeps on recurring. There's no reason whatsoever for mario kart to be open world.

I can envision a new variant of the game that replaces lapped/circuit racing with a cross-country rally race. A madcap free-for-all where you need to find your own route and scheme against opponents like the movie “rat race” could fit the game’s vibe well

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#52

Post by AlwaysRock »

honkycat wrote: post #10
bee_rider wrote: post #6

I wonder if it will be fun. The open world Zelda game kinda made sense to me because those games have always been pretty open. You could always wander around. When I was a kid, I played Ocarina of Time as an open world game, I just wandered around and made up the NPC interactions in my head. And the 2D entries in the series had pretty big worlds. Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see if the trick can repeat outside tha…

The Forza Horizon series are open world car games, and they are very fun and effective.

Need For Speed: Underground 2 and I think a decent chunk of other NFS were open world and really fun. Driving your car around in a driving game should be fun.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#53

Post by atrus »

ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #7

No video game will ever get 80+ bucks from me without a physical book/guide or statue/figure. Need for Speed Underground changed to an open world with the second release and I hated everything about it.

I see this statement a lot, but who is paying $80 for it?

You need a switch 2 to play it, and there's a bundle that includes it for $50 more.

If you can afford a switch 2, but can't afford the bundle, I kinda think you realistically can't afford the switch2. Of course there are going to be niche cases, but they're niche.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#54

Post by wegfawefgawefg »

bee_rider wrote: post #6

I wonder if it will be fun. The open world Zelda game kinda made sense to me because those games have always been pretty open. You could always wander around. When I was a kid, I played Ocarina of Time as an open world game, I just wandered around and made up the NPC interactions in my head. And the 2D entries in the series had pretty big worlds. Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see if the trick can repeat outside tha…

Both scarlet/violet sold 27million copies, comparable to all the other mainline games, and legends was the most popular sidegame by far at 15 million copies sold.

I think the series is never going to not be open world going forward. It was a resounding success and most people like it.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#55

Post by ordinaryradical »

MajimasEyepatch wrote: post #27
ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #7

No video game will ever get 80+ bucks from me without a physical book/guide or statue/figure. Need for Speed Underground changed to an open world with the second release and I hated everything about it.

Did you feel that way in 2005 when the Xbox 360 was released and $60 was the new standard? Because $60 in 2005 has the same buying power as $97.41 today. This game, in real terms, is cheaper than Xbox 360 games were.

Consider wage growth adjusted for inflation as well and we discover that disposable incomes have gone up 1% on average in that period.

What is a video game if not an outlet for disposable income?

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#56

Post by DistractionRect »

bee_rider wrote: post #6

I wonder if it will be fun. The open world Zelda game kinda made sense to me because those games have always been pretty open. You could always wander around. When I was a kid, I played Ocarina of Time as an open world game, I just wandered around and made up the NPC interactions in my head. And the 2D entries in the series had pretty big worlds. Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see if the trick can repeat outside tha…

Yeah, it doesn't really elaborate on why openworld might be more fun than standard tracks/cups. Sure, I can drive around in it and look at it, but what makes than fun? This article basically tells us large scale level design takes a lot of effort, but no more.

Zelda makes sense to a degree, but IMO they lost the plot on what made Zelda games interesting. Old Zelda games were kinda open, but had (mostly) fixed sequence. The games were basically lock and key puzzles with a lot of back tracking. As you went you unlocked more items (keys), but having to key wasn't enough. You had to figure out how/where to use it. The way everything layered was elegant. You were excited to get to a dungeon, they always need a new gimmick(s)/mechanic(s), you got a new toy, and two boss fights. Once you were done, you got to see how this new thing unlocked more of world.

New Zelda games have puddle deep dungeons and shrines to quickly get you back into the overworld, and you've already unlocked all the mechanics before the tutorial is over. So all that's left is exploring the overworld for the sake of exploration, which has a thousand seeds and a hundred shallow shrines to encourage you overturn every stone in it.

I get I might not be the target demographic, open world games aren't inherently bad, and the new Zeldas enjoyed great commercial success. However I do feel this shift to open world misses and loses what made Mario Kart and Zelda beloved series to begin with.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#57

Post by surgical_fire »

thmsths wrote: post #41
MajimasEyepatch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you feel that way in 2005 when the Xbox 360 was released and $60 was the new standard? Because $60 in 2005 has the same buying power as $97.41 today. This game, in real terms, is cheaper than Xbox 360 games were.

I understand this, but the economics of software in general is that you have high upfront costs and then the marginal costs are minimal. Better tooling has helped keep these upfront costs from growing too much (developing a game in 2025 is MUCH easier than in 2005), the distribution costs have shrunk too and the size of the market has exploded. Given these is it really unreasonable for consumers to expect the prices…

> developing a game in 2025 is MUCH easier than in 2005

Developing a game is also a lot more expensive in 2025.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#58

Post by barbazoo »

furyofantares wrote: post #37
ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #7

No video game will ever get 80+ bucks from me without a physical book/guide or statue/figure. Need for Speed Underground changed to an open world with the second release and I hated everything about it.

I think maybe the best $70 I ever spent was on Secret of Mana in 1993, or about $150 in today's dollars, after saving up the most money I'd ever saved up in my entire life for it.

My all time favourite game.

Same here, so expensive but it came in a larger than other games box and the book iirc.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#59

Post by surgical_fire »

ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #7

No video game will ever get 80+ bucks from me without a physical book/guide or statue/figure. Need for Speed Underground changed to an open world with the second release and I hated everything about it.

I rarely buy full priced games, full stop.

That said, I normally open an exception for Nintendo. Their games are fun, generally come out well polished (no day 1 huge patches to fix a broken release) and are void of microtransactions.

Re: Mario Kart designers had to rethink everything to make it open world

#60

Post by SirFatty »

badgersnake wrote: post #29
bee_rider wrote: post #6

I wonder if it will be fun. The open world Zelda game kinda made sense to me because those games have always been pretty open. You could always wander around. When I was a kid, I played Ocarina of Time as an open world game, I just wandered around and made up the NPC interactions in my head. And the 2D entries in the series had pretty big worlds. Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see if the trick can repeat outside tha…

Burnout Paradise did this to Burnout and imho, it made that game worse. If you haven’t played Burnout, go find a PS2 emulator and a Burnout 3 iso and you’ll have an amazing afternoon.

I first saw Burnout 3 at a family member's house. On the way home I stopped at Gamestop and bought a (first gen) Xbox and that game. What a fantastic game, the kids and I played it for countless hours. Too bad it never carried forward (Paradise doesn't count).

Still have all that gear in a plastic bin.. I think about firing it up, but maybe I should leave it alone and just enjoy my memories.

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