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Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

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Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#51

Post by alttab »

intended wrote: post #44
mietek wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal has decriminalized all drugs in 2001. "Serious drug use is down significantly, particularly among young people; the burden on the criminal-justice system has eased; the number of people seeking treatment has grown; and the rates of drug-related deaths and cases of infectious diseases have fallen."

Heh, I think I brought up this very point in HN, and it was pointed out that the burden had shifted to medical services now.

Better that then sending non-violent criminals into for-profit prison systems, destroying lives of the families impacted, and generally making the wrong people rich(er) for the wrong reasons.

Hemp is illegal in America for christ sake. Not because "its related to weed" either. Its because we can make anything out of hemp and that doesn't generate profit.

How anything naturally made by earth (weed, hemp, opium) can be labeled "illegal" is arrogant of the human race. What makes us think we know better than nature?

There are plenty of natural poisons out there that could kill us instantly. Why dont we make poison dart frogs illegal? Why aren't venomous snakes illegal?

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#52

Post by david_b »

zerostar07 wrote: post #37

I wonder why the "DIY for drugs" movement is taking so long to become mainstream. I mean, it makes sense that the role of drug cartels should be diminished by now. With governments reluctant to legalize anything, an "open drugs" initiative might work.

That made me smile - you really don't know a lot about drug manufacturing, do you? A couple of points: 1. The war against drugs may not seem very effective to you, but it is in its own perverted way: punishment is harsh - add to that that the kind of people who would attempt something as complex as that (brainy people who often have sth. to lose) would get raped in prison on a daily basis. Just look at the Aryan Brotherhood - depending on the scale of your undertaking, they are the kind of people you would be in a cell with. Don't underestimate this as a strong deterring factor. Another interesting article on the excesses of drug law enforcement and the history of drug prohibition: http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/opium-made-easy/ 2. Who say there isn't such a movement? Somebody already mentioned marihuana growing, but there was at least one very high profile webforum that discussed these matters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_%28website%29 3. Precursors and apparatus are expensive and hard to get (in Texas you can't even buy glassware without registration). 4. If you are making drugs for your own consumption, you want them to be safe (for example free of unhealthy precursors) - the analytics are even more complicated and expensive than the manufacturing. 5. Everybody can turn on you - hiding an undertaking of that scale would be nearly impossible if you have a social life (friends, family etc.). As I tried to point out above, you are literally taking your life in your hands when you are working with these things: whom would you trust with your life? One wrong word from a drunken friend and "the conseuquences will be never be the same". You are moving into a war zone and your loved ones with you.

I think the future lies in biotransformations - candian scientist apparently have alread done it for yeast: www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/493629-Canadian-scientists-create-morphine-producing-yeast Such a system will completely destroy both the drug market and prohibition. People will simply cultivate their drugs in yeast in the forseeable future.

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#53

Post by K2h »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #7
gvb wrote: post #4

Ultralights, not UAVs. The picture of the downed ultralight clearly has a pilot seat and instrumentation. The only place UAV is mentioned in the article is an editorial addition to a quote from the sensor vendor "[unmanned aerial vehicles]". If you follow the link to the vendor site, you will find the vendor advertises their sensor as an adjunct to "unmanned aerial systems", i.e. the boarder patrol's UAVs, not the sm…

I caught that as well. Still costs less to put a sacrificial mule in the driver seat than to automate them. A long time ago when Georgia Tech was flying GPS guided helicopters in the UAV contests I wondered just how much it would cost to build a drug mule like that. Should be pretty trivial, drop via GPS and you don't need human pilots. Of course if you get spotted a human can abort back over the border but a robot w…

so plan on the UAV getting tracked, and drop multiple payloads along the route - expect some to get taken, but it requires DEA to follow the entire path instead of looking for the point in the path where the UAV turns around to go home.

actually, that is way to complicated. drug runners come up with some really simple solutions to problems, that to more educated people seem stupid, but is a perfect example of a MVP.

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#54

Post by zerostar07 »

david_b wrote: post #52
zerostar07 wrote: post #37

I wonder why the "DIY for drugs" movement is taking so long to become mainstream. I mean, it makes sense that the role of drug cartels should be diminished by now. With governments reluctant to legalize anything, an "open drugs" initiative might work.

That made me smile - you really don't know a lot about drug manufacturing, do you? A couple of points: 1. The war against drugs may not seem very effective to you, but it is in its own perverted way: punishment is harsh - add to that that the kind of people who would attempt something as complex as that (brainy people who often have sth. to lose) would get raped in prison on a daily basis. Just look at the Aryan Brot…

I think you are describing the situation in America, where i 'm not. I am wholly against drug use on philosophical grounds, but i would assume that their production would be easier today than it was in the past. I mean, we have personal PCR machines, i would assume the mechanics of drugmaking would have evolved since the 70s (no Moore's law there?)

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#57

Post by pavel_lishin »

csense wrote: post #36

> The agency can’t legally shoot down ultralight planes just for carrying weed and blow. How do they know what they're carrying? I sure hope some US government agency (DoD springs to mind) has the authority to shoot down sketchy aerial vehicles flying into the US from foreign territory and dropping stuff without radio contact or filed flight plans. Think for a bit what terrorists or foreign powers could do to us if w…

They aren't dropping packages off on the White House lawn, or flying up the Hudson.

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#58

Post by david_b »

zerostar07 wrote: post #54
david_b wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That made me smile - you really don't know a lot about drug manufacturing, do you? A couple of points: 1. The war against drugs may not seem very effective to you, but it is in its own perverted way: punishment is harsh - add to that that the kind of people who would attempt something as complex as that (brainy people who often have sth. to lose) would get raped in prison on a daily basis. Just look at the Aryan Brot…

I think you are describing the situation in America, where i 'm not. I am wholly against drug use on philosophical grounds, but i would assume that their production would be easier today than it was in the past. I mean, we have personal PCR machines, i would assume the mechanics of drugmaking would have evolved since the 70s (no Moore's law there?)

Even other countries get pressured into drug prohibition - to my knowledge, there is no country where it would be safe (as in legal) to make drugs for yourself (Portugal maybe?). Not every prison system is as inhumane as that of the US, but here in Germany we had a report just last week that the chance of getting raped in juvenile prison is shockingly high.

Getting precursors and equipment would at least be rather expensive here (also chemical suppliers are prone to notify the police if you buy the "wrong" stuff).

PCR machines are essentially Peltier blocks with a chunk of aluminium on top - there is no hard tech in these things.

A used chromatograph with detectors is easily above 10.000€ - I saw a guy in a german chemistry forum who bought a gas chromatograph with detector(s?) for around 10000€. You don't absolutely need one - but if you want to be sure about the cleanliness of your product you need some kind of analysis. I have to admit although I have vocational training in chemistry and analytics I don't know how low the detection threshold of something like a TLC plate is, which would be the easiest (/cheapest) way to get a guesstimate. Overall this looks easy when you get into it (it's just a bunch of chemical reactions after all) but the closer you look at it, the harder it gets.

There is no Moores law in chemistry - there are probably a lot of new synthetic pathways that could be applicable; finding the right ones (to get a good yield; to use available precursors) is hard and takes knowledge the average weekend warrior won't have (it would be a lot easier to just use the recipes on rhodiums archive and try to make the precursors you can't buy).

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#59

Post by ChuckMcM »

K2h wrote: post #53
ChuckMcM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I caught that as well. Still costs less to put a sacrificial mule in the driver seat than to automate them. A long time ago when Georgia Tech was flying GPS guided helicopters in the UAV contests I wondered just how much it would cost to build a drug mule like that. Should be pretty trivial, drop via GPS and you don't need human pilots. Of course if you get spotted a human can abort back over the border but a robot w…

so plan on the UAV getting tracked, and drop multiple payloads along the route - expect some to get taken, but it requires DEA to follow the entire path instead of looking for the point in the path where the UAV turns around to go home. actually, that is way to complicated. drug runners come up with some really simple solutions to problems, that to more educated people seem stupid, but is a perfect example of a MVP.

MIDD - multiple independent drug drops :-) I was going for a pun on MIRV but didn't quite get there. One of the things is that payload value is linear with volume and delivery platform cost is inverse exponential with size. Seems like the ultralight as a 'platform' hits a sweet spot. The rail gun the navy is looking at should be able to lob a projectile 200 miles so perhaps we can look forward to artillery delivery of drugs into southern AZ.

Re: Drug Cartels Now Using UAVs

#60

Post by rprospero »

alttab wrote: post #51
intended wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I think I brought up this very point in HN, and it was pointed out that the burden had shifted to medical services now.

Better that then sending non-violent criminals into for-profit prison systems, destroying lives of the families impacted, and generally making the wrong people rich(er) for the wrong reasons. Hemp is illegal in America for christ sake. Not because "its related to weed" either. Its because we can make anything out of hemp and that doesn't generate profit. How anything naturally made by earth (weed, hemp, opium) can be…

In many states, the possession of venomous snakes is illegal. Same goes for poison dart frogs.
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