If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued • Hacker News Board

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#351

Post by BobbyTables2 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 3:07 AM UTC

mjr00 wrote: post #277

eitally wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't agree, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. I posit that there's an employer expectation that every employee will be "useful", but utility is a fungible characteristic and the majority of managers and employers treat job descriptions of standardized roles just like that. Employees in those roles are susceptible to both replacement and career advancement, depending how "useful" they are, and how…

> Lots of fresh grads and junior staff focus 99% on being useful, but career advancement beyond the first one or two promotions depends MUCH more on being valued. Yeah. I've seen a lot of ICs get stuck at the "senior developer" level rather than progressing to team lead, staff/principal eng, etc because they were too focused on being useful, by cranking through Jira tickets and features, rather than thinking strategi…

Yet, while these more valuable team players that think strategically may be inherently more “valuable”, they aren’t necessarily more “valued” either.

Who I have I seen that is more valued? H1B hires (QA > SW developer) and middle management. Even break room legal notices prove the former.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#352

Post by benzayb » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 3:26 AM UTC

"All that are useful are valuable; but not all valuable are useful." - Me.

I'd rather be useful than be valued but is totally useless. :D

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#353

Post by RyanOD » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 3:48 AM UTC

And just because you are valued, it doesn't mean you are useful.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#354

Post by m463 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:18 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #114

I feel like "useful" and "valued" are very poor terms for the situations described in the article. I think a much better explanation is that just because you may excel in one role (and be recognized as such) does not necessarily mean you'll excel in another role. And heck, I think it's important to recognize these qualities and limitations in yourself . Calling this being "useful" or "valued" puts an emotional/moral…

I remember people I've worked with over the years that have resigned because they were never going to get onto another project and grow while they were so "useful" on the current project.

Sort of like holding people who were successful working on the OS from a decade ago, and not letting them work on the current OS.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#355

Post by Gud » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 5:13 AM UTC

PantaloonFlames wrote: post #332

chairmansteve wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also to be fair to employers. A decent amount of employees are not really "doers". Perhaps they contribute in other ways.

I’m curious / what other ways do people contribute ? This is obviously a blind spot for me. Like, contributing a sense of fun? Being cheerful?

They move the paper from point A to point B.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#356

Post by _huayra_ » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 6:36 AM UTC

The other thing I would encourage folks here to do is self-advocate.

We may deride the bloviations of the folks who are "all talk and no code" and how they seemingly ride the coattails of folks actually in the trenches, but honestly a lot of people do great work and sorta expect it to get "naturally noticed" in the corporate environment.

Not saying ditch your IDE and just throw around buzzwords in boring could've-been-an-email "sync meetings", but don't forget that demonstrating the value you have is also important and often neglected skill.

If a clever PR hotfix merges in the forest, does it make a sound?

I am telling on myself here, in a way, as this article hit hard and with great serendipity: I was part of a RIF at a well-known company this very morning, and I most definitely did not advocate very well for myself despite really holding the projects I was on together technically in the background / shadows.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#357

Post by naikrovek » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 1:19 PM UTC

infamouscow wrote: post #308

bornfreddy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you are looking for an answer or just letting the steam out... But if you are searching for knowledge, then I would suggest picking up a book or two on leading people. It was a big surprise to me that such books exist and that they actually help understand the dynamics in companies, and how to achieve win-win outcomes. Good luck!

Being a leader and being a manager are completely different things. Leaders primary concern is for those under them. Managers primary concern is for those above them.

yeah I think you're right. I work for Managers.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#358

Post by legaltechPM » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 2:01 PM UTC

I have 100% experienced this distinction. Crushing in, getting stuff done - but management is not interested in promoting me - they like me where I am. Versus crushing it, getting stuff done - and being sought to contribute vision/strategy, being invited to important meetings, and given opportunities to do bigger things.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#359

Post by jfil » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 2:39 PM UTC

PantaloonFlames wrote: post #332

chairmansteve wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also to be fair to employers. A decent amount of employees are not really "doers". Perhaps they contribute in other ways.

I’m curious / what other ways do people contribute ? This is obviously a blind spot for me. Like, contributing a sense of fun? Being cheerful?

I worked with a junior team member who constantly moved around departments chatting with people. From one angle, this looked unproductive. From another angle, they kept everyone apprised of what projects other are working on /major developments in completely different departments - this had wide ranging benefits.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#360

Post by apercu » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 3:15 PM UTC

endemic wrote: post #118

apercu wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of work avoidance sounds like a lot of work. Advice would be to try to find a job or role doing something you’re interested it. A lot of the subject matter of my work is not that interesting to me, and the politics and lack of any sort of vision or leadership at most organizations these days makes project work sometimes stressful. But (maybe as a survival mechanism?) I’ve found that focusing on improving ho…

> Advice would be to try to find a job or role doing something you’re interested it. Sounds great, where do I find it?

I had to quit my job as president of a company and start a consulting practice to do this (to varying degree of success, freedom requires constant vigilance).

Your mileage may vary.