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If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

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Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#331

Post by entropicdrifter »

mathgeek wrote: post #213
osigurdson wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is over indexing on the value that the company brings to its customers and the value that an employee beings to the company - as if there is just a kind of lossless value roll up going on here. In reality, there are many humans in the mix - various gatekeepers with all kinds of objective functions that are not necessarily aligned with the overall stated objective of the company. The better a compan…

I think it's worth differentiating between value (i.e. having value) and valued (i.e. the people who control your future at a company seeing value in your work, whether or not it reflects reality).

Isn't that what the original author is doing by using "useful" to mean "adds value" vs "valued" which means what you're saying it means in this context?

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#332

Post by PantaloonFlames »

chairmansteve wrote: post #293
MichaelZuo wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to employers… even high performers need comforting lies some of the time. (and middling performers a lot more) I don’t think anyone (excluding the literally deranged) spends their day trying to maximize the number of lies directed at employees.

And also to be fair to employers. A decent amount of employees are not really "doers". Perhaps they contribute in other ways.

I’m curious / what other ways do people contribute ? This is obviously a blind spot for me.

Like, contributing a sense of fun? Being cheerful?

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#333

Post by [deleted] »

strangattractor wrote: post #310
schmookeeg wrote: post #280

I have traded within a quite tight comp band for my entire 30 year tech career. I am useful in general. I have been valued by being offered "promotions" and "strategic instead of tactical" positions, but I always chafe. I enjoy the work. I enjoy solving specific problems in tech. I do not enjoy the "business" of tech and have no interest in any of it. I definitely have inadequate drive to grow a business and make oth…

Did my own stint as a contractor and it was one of the best jobs I ever had. My clients would often ask for something - I would give them my opinion on how it should be done and alternatives that may be cheaper and/or better. They would then choose not to do that and pay me all those extra hours that their poor choice resulted in. Contrast this to working for an organization. Again I offer my opinion on how it might…

[deleted]

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#334

Post by geodel »

gadders wrote: post #188
naikrovek wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does good work without self-marketing I kinda feel called out. My work should speak for itself. It often does, but I will always forget it when it comes time to speak of myself nicely. I simply do not care to self-promote. It feels vain and vanity is one of the most useless things possible to me. Donald Trump is about 98% vanity, if you want to see what vanity is. Not being able to actually cite the things I’ve don…

I am bad at this as well. I think part of it is to do with my upbringing as a poor, smart kid at a bad school. The way to be well thought of by teachers was to not cause a fuss and get good grades whilst the teachers concentrated on the disruptive kids. I shudder at the thought of becoming one of those gobshites that asks senior management questions in townhalls like "How do you stay so grounded with all the awesome…

It is good. I used to do that and get some positive feedback on it. But lately with change in management who are least interested in such mails, and with constant banging of stay in your lane, I just lost the energy.

Point is these things can yield result but it is neither guaranteed nor welcome so many times. Also praising "leadership" is race to bottom, there are always bigger suck ups pushing themselves.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#335

Post by xp84 »

firesteelrain wrote: post #174
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #114

I feel like "useful" and "valued" are very poor terms for the situations described in the article. I think a much better explanation is that just because you may excel in one role (and be recognized as such) does not necessarily mean you'll excel in another role. And heck, I think it's important to recognize these qualities and limitations in yourself . Calling this being "useful" or "valued" puts an emotional/moral…

"Just look at lots of the recent tech layoffs that have snared well-respected, senior technologists. Apparently they were "valued", until they weren't" You are actually agreeing with the author here. Rephrase that to "Apparently they were useful, until they weren't" They weren't valued. I think the author is apt in their observation.

> layoffs that have snared well-respected, senior technologists. Apparently they were "valued", until they weren't"

See, I think it's more honest to say that 99% of employees are not valued at all, in that "the company" or top management actually care about what you think because you think it. People are kept around as long as the person 1-2 levels above them in management believe they have a positive short-term ROI, and everyone will be unceremoniously let go nearly instantly the moment they think they don't need you, whether you have just not distinguished yourself, or just basically at random when revenue misses dictate general cutbacks.

The author of the piece seems to place great personal significance specifically on his ideas mattering to the execs, but I think that may not be such an important thing to every personality type. I do mildly like being part of some 'strategic' conversations, but it's honestly more because I don't want the tech team to be blindsided by an impossible product requirement, and because I feel like I am good at identifying low-hanging fruit. But in terms of whether the company pursues one strategy or another at the highest level, that is hard, and you have to feel pretty bad when you make a bad bet. I don't think I need that at all to be happy.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#336

Post by JadeNB »

roncesvalles wrote: post #326
jimbokun wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would administrative staff ever be valued over the people providing the core purpose of the institution?

I agree. It sounds like lack of documented processes and leadership oversight have made that corner of the organization a kind of personal fiefdom of the administrative staff.

> I agree. It sounds like lack of documented processes and leadership oversight have made that corner of the organization a kind of personal fiefdom of the administrative staff.

There are lots of problems with the way universities are set up, but, from the point of view of a faculty member and, I suspect, also that of a student, "more leadership oversight" would solve none of them. (Unless it was accompanied by a change of university leadership from those who think of a university primarily as a business, to those who think of a university primarily as a university. I have only spent a long time at one university, so it is possible that this problem is peculiar to my university, but my impression from talking to my colleagues is that it is not.)

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#337

Post by DiscourseFan »

apwell23 wrote: post #52
DiscourseFan wrote: post #43

It takes some guts to be in management, but being a good worker-bee will only get you so far. You have to know how to work with others, you have to be able to make critical decisions at the right moment. Not everyone has the talent for it. And if you don't have it, you don't have it. Will you, as this author has described, find a comfortable position in life, be able to afford whatever you need? Absolutely. And you'l…

> It takes some guts to be in management > And if you don't have it, you don't have it. hope this is parody

Not everyone is a good manager either

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#339

Post by robocat »

77pt77 wrote: post #238
isoprophlex wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add to the general consensus here that this is an extremely valuable comment. At least for me it closely resonates with things I am only now discovering, at an age close to 40; the (in)ability to set and guard boundaries is super dependent upon early life and upbringing. Thanks for articulating this so clearly.

Setting boundaries is only a thing if you're able to implement them, just like in geopolitics. If you lack the power to implement them they mean nothing. Children can try and set the boundaries they want, but parents, family and society in general can just laugh and ignore them.

Setting boundaries implies conflict management. Most people have some power, but many fear to use their power because it risks conflict.

Navigating conflict is hard.

Many people are conflict avoiders, and they struggle to set boundaries. People pleasers or panderers in particular often cost themselves a lot to avoid conflict.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#340

Post by apwell23 »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #109
DiscourseFan wrote: post #43

It takes some guts to be in management, but being a good worker-bee will only get you so far. You have to know how to work with others, you have to be able to make critical decisions at the right moment. Not everyone has the talent for it. And if you don't have it, you don't have it. Will you, as this author has described, find a comfortable position in life, be able to afford whatever you need? Absolutely. And you'l…

> Will you, as this author has described, find a comfortable position in life, be able to afford whatever you need? Absolutely. Only when the times are good, as many of us had to learn the hard way. When times are tough and there aren't enough resources to go around - there is no substitute for being the one allocating the resources, or at least close to them.

not everyone has the skills to suck up to the person allocating resources
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