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If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

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Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#281

Post by Swizec »

asielen wrote: post #246
Swizec wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of fresh grads and junior staff focus 99% on being useful, but career advancement beyond the first one or two promotions depends MUCH more on being valued. “People don’t remember who went to grab drinks on a Tuesday, but they’ll remember who helped them close a million dollar deal and get a huge bonus” Give your coworkers superpowers and opportunities will flow.

"People don’t remember who went to grab drinks on a Tuesday, but they’ll remember who helped them close a million dollar deal and get a huge bonus” Outside of sales and senior leadership I don't agree with this statement. Maybe it is just because I've reached a time in my life where I could care less about the hustle and just want a job where it can solve interesting problems for no more than 8 hours a day. And then…

> but at some point relationships are more important than dollars

Sure. Who do you have a better relationship with: That engineer who drops everything they're doing to come help you with a gnarly bug when asked, or the dude who's always at happy hour but nowhere to be seen when you need something?

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#282

Post by gen220 »

naikrovek wrote: post #179
gen220 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I've been where you are. > because I don’t self-promote, people who can’t shut up about themselves get promoted beyond me You need to re-frame this problem, so it's not about "self-promotion", and instead is about proactively forecasting the needs (as you put it) of your manager , not just the technical system you're managing. If you view it as part of your job to document (not promote, just document) the work y…

how can i understand what my manager needs if i don't know what he does? I have no idea what managers do, and I can't ever get an answer when I ask what managers do. "oh, all kinds of stuff." gosh, thanks. it's so clear, now.

It's important to understand the incentives of everybody in an organization, even if they're not able to articulate it clearly to you, you should make it your personal mission to understand them. The incentive structure of your manager (i.e. the standard by which they are judged) is to keep their ICs productive while also attempting to keep costs "under control" (i.e. growing, but at a predictable rate that is below some hurdle).

If you want a promotion, your manager needs to be able to explain / provide evidence to their manager (and so on, all the way to the board in theory) as to why you deserve a higher salary.

If you are doing the right work, are able to provide them with an artifact (brag sheet / promotion packet) that concisely outlines the value provided, and consistently provide the signal that you'd be dissatisfied (i.e. potentially leave) without a promotion, you'll get a promotion. It's within your power to remove the only remaining obstacle for them by providing the packet, which is 80% of their work in securing you a promotion.

There are almost always more urgent issues for a manager to address than a high-performing employee who is quietly upset about not getting a promotion. By stepping up and helping them do this small part of their job, you're demonstrating empathy by solving an important but non-urgent problem for them. They will be grateful.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#283

Post by mancerayder »

schmookeeg wrote: post #280

I have traded within a quite tight comp band for my entire 30 year tech career. I am useful in general. I have been valued by being offered "promotions" and "strategic instead of tactical" positions, but I always chafe. I enjoy the work. I enjoy solving specific problems in tech. I do not enjoy the "business" of tech and have no interest in any of it. I definitely have inadequate drive to grow a business and make oth…

The relationship between a contractor and a business is more honest: exchange labor time for cash.

Between an employee and employer, enter ideology: I do this because I love it/love helping clients/ working communally to improve the business. Or competition: my bonus is 50 percent of my salary and we're stack-ranked. Or fear: oh my god, I got only Meets Expectations in my review. Will my pay be flat?

And contractors get to not have constant meetings.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#285

Post by kbenson »

schmookeeg wrote: post #280

I have traded within a quite tight comp band for my entire 30 year tech career. I am useful in general. I have been valued by being offered "promotions" and "strategic instead of tactical" positions, but I always chafe. I enjoy the work. I enjoy solving specific problems in tech. I do not enjoy the "business" of tech and have no interest in any of it. I definitely have inadequate drive to grow a business and make oth…

If you haven't read it already, I highly recommend reading The Gervais Principle, Or The Office According to “The Office”. It's not that it maps to reality perfectly, but it's an interesting lens through which to look at work and your relation to it. It helped me soften my view on some of my coworkers by understanding their motivations better, and also helped me to accept a point of view much more similar to yours about the work I do. Also, if you're a fan of The Office, it's fun to revisit it and examine it in a new way.

1: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#286

Post by MichaelZuo »

mancerayder wrote: post #283
schmookeeg wrote: post #280

I have traded within a quite tight comp band for my entire 30 year tech career. I am useful in general. I have been valued by being offered "promotions" and "strategic instead of tactical" positions, but I always chafe. I enjoy the work. I enjoy solving specific problems in tech. I do not enjoy the "business" of tech and have no interest in any of it. I definitely have inadequate drive to grow a business and make oth…

The relationship between a contractor and a business is more honest: exchange labor time for cash. Between an employee and employer, enter ideology: I do this because I love it/love helping clients/ working communally to improve the business. Or competition: my bonus is 50 percent of my salary and we're stack-ranked. Or fear: oh my god, I got only Meets Expectations in my review. Will my pay be flat? And contractors…

To be fair to employers… even high performers need comforting lies some of the time.

(and middling performers a lot more)

I don’t think anyone (excluding the literally deranged) spends their day trying to maximize the number of lies directed at employees.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#287

Post by FeteCommuniste »

kevinventullo wrote: post #268
77pt77 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting boundaries is only a thing if you're able to implement them, just like in geopolitics. If you lack the power to implement them they mean nothing. Children can try and set the boundaries they want, but parents, family and society in general can just laugh and ignore them.

You do need a certain degree of leverage. I think especially in the tech sector, people often do not realize how much leverage they have, and how a little pushback can go a long way. It is sometimes worth asking and testing: “Are they really going to fire me for this?”

A lot of us have jobs where the answer to that question is often "I don't know."

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#288

Post by yieldcrv »

schmookeeg wrote: post #280

I have traded within a quite tight comp band for my entire 30 year tech career. I am useful in general. I have been valued by being offered "promotions" and "strategic instead of tactical" positions, but I always chafe. I enjoy the work. I enjoy solving specific problems in tech. I do not enjoy the "business" of tech and have no interest in any of it. I definitely have inadequate drive to grow a business and make oth…

that's pragmatic, I've launched and exited two things, and I can't bring myself to do it again to solidify my financial circumstances, so I stay employed instead and exclusively

its interesting how there are so many ways to be productive and compensated in this industry doing the same kind of work, but each gatekeeper is so strongly opinionated

like there is this perception that even just a 10 year developer is supposed to be this super soldier doing continual growth - more than just keeping up with frameworks but doing all these advanced other things - as opposed to simply doing the same job for 10 years. I like how the industry has matured for people with less years of experience to be compensated so highly, so I just keep truncating my resume to being at 8-10 years of experience, and plan on doing that forever.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#289

Post by kmoser »

mjr00 wrote: post #277
eitally wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't agree, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. I posit that there's an employer expectation that every employee will be "useful", but utility is a fungible characteristic and the majority of managers and employers treat job descriptions of standardized roles just like that. Employees in those roles are susceptible to both replacement and career advancement, depending how "useful" they are, and how…

> Lots of fresh grads and junior staff focus 99% on being useful, but career advancement beyond the first one or two promotions depends MUCH more on being valued. Yeah. I've seen a lot of ICs get stuck at the "senior developer" level rather than progressing to team lead, staff/principal eng, etc because they were too focused on being useful, by cranking through Jira tickets and features, rather than thinking strategi…

I think you're twisting the original article's meaning of "useful" and "valuable." Useful means you are able to contribute meaningfully. Valuable means you are perceived as being able to provide value to the company (in this case by being useful), and are treated accordingly.

An engineer who does their job so well that they reduce everyone's workload by automating things and showing others how to do some of their tasks doesn't become less useful; in fact just the opposite, since presumably they will continue to need to do this as the landscape changes and not everybody will have their advanced knowledge of how to efficiently organize things at a high level.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#290

Post by ilteris »

schmookeeg wrote: post #280

I have traded within a quite tight comp band for my entire 30 year tech career. I am useful in general. I have been valued by being offered "promotions" and "strategic instead of tactical" positions, but I always chafe. I enjoy the work. I enjoy solving specific problems in tech. I do not enjoy the "business" of tech and have no interest in any of it. I definitely have inadequate drive to grow a business and make oth…

Yeah tried that in office environment thinking it could work. Got slapped with a "fair" rating last minute. They want you to become one on their side or you are a risk for them.
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