If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued • Hacker News Board

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#141

Post by cyanydeez » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:44 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #114

I feel like "useful" and "valued" are very poor terms for the situations described in the article. I think a much better explanation is that just because you may excel in one role (and be recognized as such) does not necessarily mean you'll excel in another role. And heck, I think it's important to recognize these qualities and limitations in yourself . Calling this being "useful" or "valued" puts an emotional/moral…

another way to look at it is: just because you're excellent in one role, does not mean there's an upgrade path at any given business to improve salary+expectations.

Some businesses structure this intentionally, to avoid the upward progression of salaries, and other businesses just arnt churning through projects and clients quick enough to expand to fit the upward momentum of their talent.

Recognizing the real constraints on your value to a business model is important to not get stuck in the backwash of business value.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#142

Post by gen220 » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

naikrovek wrote: post #121

gadders wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like you could create a 2 x 2 matrix of Useful Vs Valued - Not Useful, Not Valued: Get good or change jobs/industries. - Not Useful, Valued: talks a good game (or is doing useful stuff that is not apparent) -Useful, Not Valued: Could be useful at non-strategic stuff, or does good work without self-marketing, or has bad management and needs to leave. - Useful, Valued: Ideal situation.

> does good work without self-marketing I kinda feel called out. My work should speak for itself. It often does, but I will always forget it when it comes time to speak of myself nicely. I simply do not care to self-promote. It feels vain and vanity is one of the most useless things possible to me. Donald Trump is about 98% vanity, if you want to see what vanity is. Not being able to actually cite the things I’ve don…

Hey, I've been where you are.

> because I don’t self-promote, people who can’t shut up about themselves get promoted beyond me

You need to re-frame this problem, so it's not about "self-promotion", and instead is about proactively forecasting the needs (as you put it) of your manager, not just the technical system you're managing.

If you view it as part of your job to document (not promote, just document) the work you've done, it's trivial to collect those links into a doc at the end of the promotion cycle, hand it to your manager and collect a promotion. Make sure that you're communicating throughout the cycle that you're expecting a promotion in your 1:1's and ask if you're on track towards that goal / if there's anything un-discussed you'd need to do to get there.

It's critical to understand that this is not vanity, it's part of your job (if you want a promotion, that is). I hope this is helpful!

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#143

Post by einpoklum » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:46 PM UTC

austin-cheney wrote: post #66

This is far more simple than it sounds. Do what others cannot to deliver success to the internal goals of the business. It is always more about capabilities and delivery and it’s never really about hard work. These capabilities can include authoring new tools but most often are soft skills and better written communication. Many people will fail at this because they cannot perform or independently determine their own…

> Simple... Do what others cannot to deliver success to the internal goals of the business.

This is not simple at all:

1. The "things which others cannot" are, typically, not the tasks you are given. So you would be neglecting the work you've been actually given to work on other things which you believe are important.

2. Things which people can't do are typically considered as irrelevant-to-do, and thus not a goal. When you do those things, it is likely that their positive impact is not recognized by most people.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#144

Post by bitwize » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:48 PM UTC

zwnow wrote: post #57

47282847 wrote: post #46

“ I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental cla…

Guess I fit the stupid and lazy category, interesting thoughts though. I act like I work half of the day and the other half I procrastinate and work simultaneously. Part of it may be ADHD but somehow it works out for me... Still getting my work done.

Sounds like upper management material!

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#145

Post by npodbielski » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:49 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #84

I seems that there are different meanings to "valued". Here how the article defines it: > Being valued, on the other hand, means that you are brought into more conversations, not just to execute, but to help shape the direction. This comes with opportunities to grow and contribute in ways that are meaningful to you and the business. But I would say that in a business setting, the definition of being valued is usually…

I think this is what auhtor meant by being usefull.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#146

Post by Archelaos » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:51 PM UTC

47282847 wrote: post #46

“ I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental cla…

Beware: anyone who confuses bourmonts with management rules belongs in the last category.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#147

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:51 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #84

I seems that there are different meanings to "valued". Here how the article defines it: > Being valued, on the other hand, means that you are brought into more conversations, not just to execute, but to help shape the direction. This comes with opportunities to grow and contribute in ways that are meaningful to you and the business. But I would say that in a business setting, the definition of being valued is usually…

You’re right about the pay but I disagree about the layoff chances. Salary is rarely ever lowered, so if one is highly paid and suddenly not valued or useful or whatever then they will be more likely to be laid off for the business to get the salary budget back to offer to someone who is more whatever.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#148

Post by meepmorp » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:52 PM UTC

whatnow37373 wrote: post #120

mindwok wrote: post #31

I'd say value, in the way the author defines it, is more a function of scarcity. If you are someone who can get stuff done but you are easily replaced, you are useful - not valuable. If you can get things done that nobody else can, or will, then you are valued.

In capitalism everything is a function of scarcity. I wonder how long we are going to keep up that particular charade.

> I wonder how long we are going to keep up that particular charade

about as long as the real world continues to have finite resources and people have differing ideas about what to do with them

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#149

Post by npodbielski » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:54 PM UTC

riehwvfbk wrote: post #98

igvadaimon wrote: post #8

I was valued. Then the company laid off the whole country and stopped hiring in that country. In the end it's just luck.

If you weren't offered a relocation package, then you probably weren't actually valued. Probably along with the entire office in the country.

Maybe he was valued in his department but department was not valued inside the company.

Re: If you are useful, it doesn't mean you are valued

#150

Post by 1970-01-01 » Mon, Jun 02, 2025, 12:55 PM UTC

The best advice is to keep applying for new opportunities continuously. At minimum, one per month. Never stop, even when things are going great. Your employer doesn't care about your career as much as you will.