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How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

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21–30 of 44 posts

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#21
post #11

We are in the fleeting era where AI models are not entirely corrupted by marketing and propaganda. Like the early web circa 1990s. It will never be this pure while also being this up-to-date ever again. Enjoy it while it lasts

Yep. It won't be long before the web is flooded with pages full of AI-generated content repeatedly mentioning brands near keywords, and "search engines" have been replaced by "summaries" monetized by prompt-stuffing. That's pretty much the extent of these people's genius.

EDIT: I guess the final step is for an "AI agent" to enter your credit card number based on this bot-chat.

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#22
A few take-aways from a study we ran (~800 consumer queries, repeated over a few days):

* AI answers shift a lot. In classic search a page-1 spot can linger for weeks; in our runs, the AI result set often changed overnight.

* Google’s new “AI Mode” and ChatGPT gave the same top recommendation only ~47 % of the time on identical queries.

* ChatGPT isn’t even consistent with itself. Results differ sharply depending on whether it falls back to live retrieval or sticks to its training data.

* When it does retrieve, ChatGPT leans heavily on publications it has relationships with (NYPost and People.com for product recs) instead of sites like rtings.com

Writeup: https://amplifying.ai/blog/why-ai-product-recommendations-ke...

Data: https://amplifying.ai/research/consumer-products

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#24

I launched a product in this space to beta customers just last week -- https://ellm.co -- and the response has been way more positive than I could have hoped for. Every SMB owner I talk to is thinking about this and looking for ways to be ahead of the curve on it even though the number of commercial AI search queries is still dwarfed by Google. It feels like a race, and we are figuring out the rules as we run it.

How is ellm different from the more established tools in the market (Profound and Peec AI)?

So the short answer is that this space is so early still that there’s plenty of space for more competition. But currently both of those market leaders are targeted at enterprise and have little to no penetration of the SMB/self-serve market. Ellm has a self serve onboarding flow, a $20/month monitoring only tier, and a $100/mo self-serve optimization tier — none of which require scheduling a call with a sales team.

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#25
post #4

ChatGPT ≠ Google-scale.Google: ~14 B searches/day; ChatGPT: ~37 M (~1 : 400). Only ~15 % of ChatGPT prompts look like classic “search”; most are writing/code tasks. Google’s own search volume grew 22 % in 2024 and still holds >90 % share. An LLM citation is nice for credibility, but it won’t move traffic or revenue anytime soon.

The 37M/day is an estimate from Rand Fishkin that often gets quoted as gospel. It is based on limited external data. OpenAI mentioned 1B/day - and had significant overall growth in usage since then. Also, 1 search on ChatGPT easily replaces 5-10 searches on Google. Many B2B SaaS companies already get the same amount of leads from ChatGPT that they get from Google. Because clicks from ChatGPT are better informed and h…

We looked at the same data that Rand Fishkin used and definitely came to a different conclusion.

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#26
post #4

ChatGPT ≠ Google-scale.Google: ~14 B searches/day; ChatGPT: ~37 M (~1 : 400). Only ~15 % of ChatGPT prompts look like classic “search”; most are writing/code tasks. Google’s own search volume grew 22 % in 2024 and still holds >90 % share. An LLM citation is nice for credibility, but it won’t move traffic or revenue anytime soon.

Yet.

And even that ignores Google runs an LLM on their search too.

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#27
post #8
post #7

SEO and it's related fields are a net-negative for the Internet (and maybe humanity in general)

The only good thing about SEO (yuck) is it got some people to care about things that are good for humans too: fast pages, well-structured content, descriptive link text, etc.

If SEO was literally Search Engine Optimisation it'd be fine.

They really mean SEG (search engine gaming)

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#28

I launched a product in this space to beta customers just last week -- https://ellm.co -- and the response has been way more positive than I could have hoped for. Every SMB owner I talk to is thinking about this and looking for ways to be ahead of the curve on it even though the number of commercial AI search queries is still dwarfed by Google. It feels like a race, and we are figuring out the rules as we run it.

Definitely a bit buggy but looks promising! Try the onboarding flow yourself as a real user (also on mobile!) - particularly leaving the site to research a competitor that is mentioned and then coming back (I got kicked out and had to start from the beginning, at which point it just paywalled me)

It also says I have canceled my subscription at the bottom of the paywall when I never had one. Still, these are little things and I think the bones are theee

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add on top of this, how many Google searches also contain Gemini answers in the search results? I've been seeing more and more, especially for code and general factoid searches.

Turtles all the way down. It is definitely interesting to see how much public opinion has been shifting on Google in AI as of late. I wonder what the main force for that is…

1. From 2010 - 2023(ish), Google slept on DeepMind and allowed OpenAI to steal the narrative. That led to a boom in AI development outside of the Google labs. This is akin to Microsoft's loss of internet/web. A half dozen trillion dollar companies emerged from Microsoft's stumbling, and we're likely to see the same with Google's missteps.

2. After the rise of so many AI startups in the 2020 - 2023 period, the end of Google was being forecast by many. Most of Google's revenue comes through search, and everyone (Nadella, Altman, investors, et al.) were talking about the incremental value of search - Google had to retain 100%, and other players just had to grow.

3. The Google founders, sensing a major blow to their cash cow, took a break from their zeppelin startups and came back. They gave Deep Mind more autonomy, took a knife to product culture, and empowered and encouraged everyone to innovate. The whole company has been re-focused and told they must win AI or face extinction.

4. As of 2025, Google has been killing it on their releases. Gemini, Veo, ... you name it, and they've got industry-leading developments that out-perform and undercut the competition. It's beginning to look like not only will Google not die, but that Google could wipe the field with their AI superiority. It looks like they'll be able to dance circles around OpenAI.

The looming threats are (1) DOJ antitrust eroding Google search ingress and (2) other players stealing Search TAM without the new AI markets being able to replace the search / ads revenue.

Any non-Google players would be wise to put antitrust pressure on Google. Even after the current case ends, they should try to strip away defaults on web and mobile. Stop Google from being able to deploy AI through Google Search, Android, and Chrome. Make Google use the same word of mouth marketing that the rest have to.

It'll be an exciting series of battles ahead.

Re: How Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) rewrites the rules of search

#30
post #28

I launched a product in this space to beta customers just last week -- https://ellm.co -- and the response has been way more positive than I could have hoped for. Every SMB owner I talk to is thinking about this and looking for ways to be ahead of the curve on it even though the number of commercial AI search queries is still dwarfed by Google. It feels like a race, and we are figuring out the rules as we run it.

Definitely a bit buggy but looks promising! Try the onboarding flow yourself as a real user (also on mobile!) - particularly leaving the site to research a competitor that is mentioned and then coming back (I got kicked out and had to start from the beginning, at which point it just paywalled me) It also says I have canceled my subscription at the bottom of the paywall when I never had one. Still, these are little th…

Thank you so much for giving it a spin and reporting those issues :)

Also if you're interested, here is what your dashboard looks like (the onboarding flow is sadly the buggiest part of the app right now): https://imgur.com/a/eysQzjT

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