Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture • Hacker News Board

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#21

Post by lgierth » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

mahmoudimus wrote: post #14

mtrimpe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why JSON schemas and the OJMs (Object-JSON-Mappers ;) it would enable aren't being developed more heavily. I love JSON, but when working on APIs between large companies / departments the "we'll just send JSON like this and email you when we change stuff" really won't cut it.

Let me state that for the record, I believe JSON is a fantastic data interchange format, especially when compared with the current state of XML. However, the point you've touched on is exactly my gripe with JSON. I just might not know enough, which is completely adequate, but afaik all the JSON schemas are either extremely complicated (I'm looking at you json-schema) or way too simple (jschema). When working with ser…

http://json-ld.org/

> JSON-LD (JavaScript Object Notation for Linking Data) is a lightweight Linked Data format that gives your data context. It is easy for humans to read and write

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#22

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:08 PM UTC

I think JSON is more popular than XML for a lot of things simply because it's so much simpler to interact with. No querying attributes, elements, elements inside elements, text inside elements, etc. You just look up the value attached to a key, or look up an index in an array, and that's it. It's simple every level down. And it's also simple to construct.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#23

Post by tptacek » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:20 PM UTC

clarkevans wrote: post #8

I think this article has done a great job enumerating trends that show JSON is beating XML for data serialization applications. I think these points are evidence of a shift in thinking, but not the reason for shift itself. Why JSON over XML? Because people need data serialization format and XML is a Markup Language. JSON is gaining widespread adoption for data serialization applications since it's the correct tool. X…

This makes sense, but from what I can tell, in virtually no major XML-based systems is the basis for XML files an underlying text extended with markup. Most XML systems, since the dawn of XML, have been top-to-bottom structured data.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#24

Post by Joeri » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:25 PM UTC

portmanteaufu wrote: post #7

For me the single greatest selling point of JSON is that it's just so danged easy to go from json string to a usable map/list/dictionary in every language. Most of the time you can get from A to B in one or two lines of code. XML always seemed like such a struggle by comparison. Figuring out which parser(s) you've got installed, figuring out their respective APIs -- it felt like total overkill. The only way I could b…

XML is a smooth fit on strongly typed languages. You can easily translate an exact type into a corresponding XML encoding and know the type of what you're getting out on the other end. JSON on the other hand is duck typing in web service form. You can shove any data structure in on one end, and get it back out the other end, without writing any custom code, and without actually knowing the type of the data you've sent. You could say that JSON itself is weakly typed.

The popularity of JSON is tied to the popularity of weak typing. You can more rapidly iterate your API design and codebase without those bothersome types getting in the way. The flip side of that is the end result isn't "done done". It lacks full validation of input and it lacks complete documentation. In short it's more difficult to use and more prone to bugs and security issues. I suspect that if you compare "done done" API's JSON and SOAP are probably equally productive.

Having said that, I use JSON myself. It's too easy to get going in.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#25

Post by huggyface » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:28 PM UTC

Kilimanjaro wrote: post #17

JSON is data. XML is markup. JSON won. Move on.

JSON is data. XML is markup.

While so many key so strongly on the markup element of the name, XML is the structured markup of data into a document. Too many have some baggage that they think Markup means something like HTML, and document means English language text.

What this article is talking about is a bit facetious -- JSON seldom replaced XML, but instead was a greenfield choice for data packaging, where previously many used delimited or custom structured techniques. The single reason why JSON "wins" are ease of use, which is the same way that PHP and MySQL won. No one should confuse it with fitness for the task when really it's ease of getting started that defines its success.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#26

Post by antihero » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:32 PM UTC

For human readable stuff, I don't know why we don't use YAML more often. The serializer is utterly fantastic, though I don't think JavaScript support parsing it quickly.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#27

Post by tmcw » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #26

For human readable stuff, I don't know why we don't use YAML more often. The serializer is utterly fantastic, though I don't think JavaScript support parsing it quickly.

Poorly implemented parsers, especially in Javascript.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#28

Post by streptomycin » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:45 PM UTC

> [XML] enabled people to do previously unthinkable things, like exchange Microsoft Office documents across HTTP connections.

wat

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#29

Post by nirvdrum » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:46 PM UTC

One of my biggest issues with JSON is it's a lot harder to generate valid JSON as a stream. Granted this may be an esoteric use case, but the quoting rules and type representations seem to require some amount of look ahead which isn't fun when generating that stream.

Re: Why JSON will continue to push XML out of the picture

#30

Post by bartonfink » Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 7:50 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #23

clarkevans wrote: post #8

I think this article has done a great job enumerating trends that show JSON is beating XML for data serialization applications. I think these points are evidence of a shift in thinking, but not the reason for shift itself. Why JSON over XML? Because people need data serialization format and XML is a Markup Language. JSON is gaining widespread adoption for data serialization applications since it's the correct tool. X…

This makes sense, but from what I can tell, in virtually no major XML-based systems is the basis for XML files an underlying text extended with markup. Most XML systems, since the dawn of XML, have been top-to-bottom structured data.

I may be talking out of my ass here, but isn't OO-XML and whatever Microsoft calls their new Office format exactly that?