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What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

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Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#41

Post by andyl »

Old-style marketing is where you run around to meetings and conferences, build relationships, convince people one on one. Old-style marketing is dead. I say this as an old-style marketer.

Why dead? Old-style isn't repeatable, it doesn't scale, and you can't train for it. Old-style is expensive, and doesn't mesh with developer culture.

Growth hacking has replaced old-style marketing. (google it!) Growth hacking has super-scale, repeatability, measurabilty. Growth hacking is code-driven - it is developer culture.

IMHO the best approach is Steve Blank style customer development, followed by product development and growth hacking. Developer culture top to bottom.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#43

Post by Nowyouknow »

RobSpectre wrote: post #35
Nowyouknow wrote: post #2

That was a great little read. Whenever I try to explain to my developer friends why my job is important, I'm usually shrugged off rudely. This guy gets it, experience is the only way to learn WHY marketing is so essential. My humble request to developers: Stop being dismissive of marketers, they are an essential part of the equation.

Thanks. :)

You're welcome! Articles like yours encourage me to learn to code and become a more well rounded marketer.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#44

Post by tmurray »

It's good to be exposed to this sort of thing as an engineer. What it teaches you to do is how to make an impact--you can figure out that feature X, despite seeming boring and uncool, will dramatically change your business. That's a great skill to have and will definitely help your career in the long run.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#45

Post by RobSpectre »

tmurray wrote: post #44

It's good to be exposed to this sort of thing as an engineer. What it teaches you to do is how to make an impact--you can figure out that feature X, despite seeming boring and uncool, will dramatically change your business. That's a great skill to have and will definitely help your career in the long run.

I hope so. The strange effect has been it has up-leveled my community impact for the developer communities in New York I care most about. Learning this stuff has definitely helped me converse better with my own kind.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#46

Post by ky3 »

mindcrime wrote: post #20

Good stuff. I guess, as hackers go, I was always a little weird, in that I always found marketing fascinating. But over the past year or so (and especially the past 6 months) I've been diving into marketing big time , studying as much marketing (and, to a lesser extent, sales) material as I can, and starting to do things like putting together a tentative marketing plan for our startup. Wow. The OP is right, this stuf…

> So, if you're selling software to,say, bolt & screw manufacturers in the Southeast, you need to know what's going on with bolt & screw manufacturers in the Southeast, what the trends are, what problems they face, and how to talk to them in terms that relate to their problems first and foremost, and NOT your product first and foremost.

Better yet, BEFORE you even develop the software, get the goods on your potential customers first. Even better yet, if you're just starting out, CHOOSE your potential customers.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#47

Post by mladenkovacevic »

jonnathanson wrote: post #9
debacle wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a culture thing. There are good marketers and there are terrible marketers. In programming, there is a culture of calling people out for their bullshit. In most other business cultures, it's a bit less belligerent.

"In programming, there is a culture of calling people out for their bullshit. In most other business cultures, it's a bit less belligerent." Marketing can be every bit as confrontational, but it's usually more passive aggressive. You'll rarely get called out in a meeting, but you'll get outmaneuvered or back-channeled after the meeting is over. The field is incredibly political. When I worked in marketing, I felt lik…

Can I also add the following things: the passing of the buck, unnecessary competition, brutal micromanagement, since marketing is "easy" everyone feels they are an expert, having to take responsibility for the failures but rarely getting credit for the wins, fighting for resources (even when you have the numbers on your side)...

I think a company where sales and marketing becomes more about politics and less about analysis and creativity is doomed to fail (or at least not achieve its real potential).

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#48

Post by mindcrime »

ky3 wrote: post #46
mindcrime wrote: post #20

Good stuff. I guess, as hackers go, I was always a little weird, in that I always found marketing fascinating. But over the past year or so (and especially the past 6 months) I've been diving into marketing big time , studying as much marketing (and, to a lesser extent, sales) material as I can, and starting to do things like putting together a tentative marketing plan for our startup. Wow. The OP is right, this stuf…

> So, if you're selling software to,say, bolt & screw manufacturers in the Southeast, you need to know what's going on with bolt & screw manufacturers in the Southeast, what the trends are, what problems they face, and how to talk to them in terms that relate to their problems first and foremost, and NOT your product first and foremost. Better yet, BEFORE you even develop the software, get the goods on your potential…

Better yet, BEFORE you even develop the software, get the goods on your potential customers first. Even better yet, if you're just starting out, CHOOSE your potential customers.

Agreed. But a growing company may with an established product line may simply be looking to broaden out into additional markets.

Definitely for a startup though, you want to learn about your customers before - or in parallel with - building the product.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#49

Post by seestheday »

andyl wrote: post #41

Old-style marketing is where you run around to meetings and conferences, build relationships, convince people one on one. Old-style marketing is dead. I say this as an old-style marketer. Why dead? Old-style isn't repeatable, it doesn't scale, and you can't train for it. Old-style is expensive, and doesn't mesh with developer culture. Growth hacking has replaced old-style marketing. (google it!) Growth hacking has su…

It's not dead. Far from it. You still need to have meetings and conferences. The amount will just depend on your industry.

I really like the idea of growth culture, but thinking that it will apply to all industries is short sighted IMO.

I run a marketing analytics groups and I'm an ex-hacker/ex-database analyst (C/perl/php/mysql/postgresql/SAS/Oracle).

Most of the good marketers making their way to the leadership positions with digital marketing in my n=1 perception have a mix of marketing and hacking on their resume.

I find the two skills very complimentary.

Re: What A Hacker Learns After A Year In Marketing

#50

Post by Nowyouknow »

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #47
jonnathanson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In programming, there is a culture of calling people out for their bullshit. In most other business cultures, it's a bit less belligerent." Marketing can be every bit as confrontational, but it's usually more passive aggressive. You'll rarely get called out in a meeting, but you'll get outmaneuvered or back-channeled after the meeting is over. The field is incredibly political. When I worked in marketing, I felt lik…

Can I also add the following things: the passing of the buck, unnecessary competition, brutal micromanagement, since marketing is "easy" everyone feels they are an expert, having to take responsibility for the failures but rarely getting credit for the wins, fighting for resources (even when you have the numbers on your side)... I think a company where sales and marketing becomes more about politics and less about an…

I agree with everything you're saying. It's driving me up a wall.
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