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Cheating Or Mastering?

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Re: Cheating Or Mastering?

#11

I have little doubt that the problems discussed actually exist, but the biggest reason for the difference is simple economics. Anything free, or at extremely low cost, is over-consumed; hence the many sign-us for the course. But completing a course is NOT free, or usually even cheap, it takes a great deal of time and effort for any but the simplest courses; therefore most end up dropping out when it stops being free.…

But cheating whom, exactly? It is not like the mark matters at the end of the day. What matters is if the material has been learned, and if it takes several iterations to finally learn it fully, so be it.

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Re: Cheating Or Mastering?

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>signing up for multiple, simultaneous sessions and picking best scoring sessions is pretty obviously cheating. Why? Taking the course multiple times sequentially is potentially okay, but taking it multiple times in parallel is "obviously cheating"? What's the difference, assuming it is always the same student taking the test? Isn't practice something to be encouraged, and not punished?

Practice is indeed something to be encouraged. Practicing to the test is no better than teaching to the test though. It's fine if there are no outside consequences like job offers, certificates with a score behind them etc. It is cheating though.

Its cheating because its against the rules.

The question is as the designer of the rules should you design that to be against the rules?

Practicing to the test is a seperate question and a function of how useful you make the test

Another interesting question is jobs, somewhere once (I don't have time to find a good link) there was talk that the business model behind Udacity was that it could sell more accurate info on students to employers than colleges can

for instance they can track who finishes stuff early vs who waits until the last minute to turn something in

Re: Cheating Or Mastering?

#13
post #3

It's very simple, I think: If you need these courses for credentialing, you have to lock them down more. Get a credit card, require a payment, and issue a token. Validate the name and address (and maybe store a hash of the SSN), and don't allow duplicates. Treat "cheating" as fraud, and act accordingly. If you need these courses for lifelong learning, the problem doesn't exist. Let someone take it a million times if…

No, credentialling should be separated from learning. If I need to prove I can safely build a bridge, I should just be tested on that. If I want to learn how to build a bridge, my education should allow me to do whatever I need to do to master the subject. A huge part of our problems in higher education and hiring have come because we've conflated the two.

tl;dr: I think that agrees with what I was saying, for some definitions of the word "separated".

The two activities credentialling and learning are strongly related, because testing can be a good way to give feedback during the learning process, in addition to being the only scalable way to filter masters from novices. As far as I can tell, apprenticeships and co-ops don't scale today. Interesting if they could.

I don't think it harms Udacity to run both - a free tier for people to get their feet wet in CS and explore through a lifetime of learning, and a pro tier that gives the equivalent of a Master of Science with certificate (ie, classes only, no thesis). The free tier allows unlimited retries, has no deadlines, and encourages self-learning. But the pro tier separates the wheat from the chaff a bit, is strict on identity, is strict on plagiarism, gives one-try test grades, and has a minimum bar for certification.

You could probably make the divide between free and pro in a much different manner than I just did. I think I gave a pretty old-school university way of thinking about the problem. Of course they are not confined to think this way.

The materials for both tiers could be very close to each other, to the point where it would be wasteful to separate instruction. That's why liberal education and professional education get smushed together into higher learning today. Maybe Udacity can separate out these two in an interesting way.

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