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U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

krebsonsecurity.com

101–110 of 305 posts

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#101
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who actually handle the chatting are kept in inhuman conditions and physically cannot leave. I think there might be a word for this.

But I was informed that ended in 1865.

On a more serious note, you might want to be aware that slavery is still legal in the US as a punishment for crime. For further reading, you might be interested in the prison industrial complex.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, crypto makes irreversibility a fundamental part of the system, making it impossible for any party to unilaterally reverse a payment without having to first take over the entire chain. With regular fiat money and banks, such reversals are perfectly possible on a technical level. The banks are usually unwilling to do them, and an individual may not be able to force them to in practice, but it's still…

> The banks are usually unwilling to do them, and an individual may not be able to force them to in practice, but it's still possible in a way it's not possible with crypto. Generally they're unwilling to do that because it involves losing money for them. Transfers work in a multi-step process to ensure money isn't created. You tell Bank A to transfer money to person X at Bank B. Bank A tells an intermediary bank C t…

If Bank C is forced to take the loss, it'll be more careful in opening accounts for scammers to withdraw money. If Bank C is in a country that doesn't care to enforce such losses, then Bank B (or A if A is big enough) will think twice about deciding to do business with Bank B. Moving the cost of the scams onto the banks will strongly incentivize them to prevent the scams.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#103
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks here have said that if you get scammed and money has been transferred (no cryptocurrency involved), there's nothing they can do. It was a bit surprising to hear since you only hear cryptocurrency transactions being irreversible.

The difference is, crypto makes irreversibility a fundamental part of the system, making it impossible for any party to unilaterally reverse a payment without having to first take over the entire chain. With regular fiat money and banks, such reversals are perfectly possible on a technical level. The banks are usually unwilling to do them, and an individual may not be able to force them to in practice, but it's still…

This seems like the correct way to go though.. if you want reversibility, then introduce escrow into the situation, the foundational building block should be irreversible.. as there's no way to make a means of transfer _more_ irreversible if you're inherently giving control to a 3rd party with no choice.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#104
post #4

Don't fall into the trap: Government penalizing private parties without due process can be appealing when it's a private party you don't like, but even those people deserve due process - that's the point, everyone does. Also it's arbitrary, unchecked power that is used for corrupt purposes, and by supporting it in a situation where you like to see it, you are legitimizing that power in every case. Edit: It's tough to…

While we're at it, we should also tax all foreigners living abroad. All this due process stuff is expensive.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced the same thing in my family. It sucks. I still haven't fully forgiven them (the supposed victim). As much as I agree it's partially mental decline, it's hard for me to imagine it's not at least also partially a character flaw that would get you into this situation

> character flaw It's usually greed. The aphorism isn't entirely true, but you can't cheat an honest man.

Awww, I don't know that that's true. If by "greed" you mean "it'd be nice to not have to clip coupons before doing my grocery shopping", sure, there are a lot of old people who would like things to be less tight.

But it's not greed in the sense of Ebenezer Scrooge or finance bros. All it takes is some pie-in-the-sky naivete and trusting the wrong person.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#106
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks here have said that if you get scammed and money has been transferred (no cryptocurrency involved), there's nothing they can do. It was a bit surprising to hear since you only hear cryptocurrency transactions being irreversible.

The difference is, crypto makes irreversibility a fundamental part of the system, making it impossible for any party to unilaterally reverse a payment without having to first take over the entire chain. With regular fiat money and banks, such reversals are perfectly possible on a technical level. The banks are usually unwilling to do them, and an individual may not be able to force them to in practice, but it's still…

This was mostly true of v.1 cryptocurrencies, but it's not like it's inherent to the system. It's just as easy to design cryptocurrencies where there are control mechanisms, governed however you'd like them to be. USDC, for example, can be frozen in any wallet at any time, and has still become hugely popular.

IF reversibility is a desired feature of digital currencies, the market will bear that out. People can and will choose those currencies.

As with any "feature," there are tradeoffs, and it might well be that people en masse decide they would rather everyone control their own money than have central powers supervising, just as it might well be that people opt back into a system very much like the one that exists today, but with new efficiencies.

Adding programmability to money in the digital age was necessary. I don't know why anybody is surprised it hasn't reached some sort of final, settled state this early in the digital age. It basically only came into practical existence after the launch of smartphones and ubiquitous internet access. Give it a minute.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#107

Related: Interpol urges to stop using "Pig Butchering": > INTERPOL argues that the term ‘pig butchering’ dehumanizes and shames victims of such frauds, deterring people from coming forward to seek help and provide information to the authorities. "Romance baiting" is proposed instead. https://www.interpol.int/News-and-Events/News/2024/INTERPOL-...

Spending their time wisely I see.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reason of most scams is the absurd level of trust existing in Western countries. When i first saw Upwork where hours were paid by the tracker in a guaranteed manner and people SIGNED for it, i knew West was doomed. I still find it hard to believe people can be that easy to dupe. Level of trust in the Western societies needs to be radically reduced through government propaganda, church and other channels. The world ha…

A high trust society is actually a good trait, not a bad one. It’s rather easy, lazy even, for a culture to devolve into a low trust minima. That’s basically the default state that people have endeavoured to evolve out of. I think it’s also the kind of thing that can easily overwhelm anxious minds. The kind where “what if it’s a scam?” leads them to never taking a risk, donating to a cause, doing someone a favour. No…

"A high trust society is actually a good trait, not a bad one."

100% agree, and seeing it erode is painful (e.g., toothpaste now locked behind plexiglass).

But to steelman the parents point, while it is be good to be high trust society, that society may be poorly adapted when rapidly integrated into a low trust globalized world.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#109
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, crypto makes irreversibility a fundamental part of the system, making it impossible for any party to unilaterally reverse a payment without having to first take over the entire chain. With regular fiat money and banks, such reversals are perfectly possible on a technical level. The banks are usually unwilling to do them, and an individual may not be able to force them to in practice, but it's still…

This seems like the correct way to go though.. if you want reversibility, then introduce escrow into the situation, the foundational building block should be irreversible.. as there's no way to make a means of transfer _more_ irreversible if you're inherently giving control to a 3rd party with no choice.

I agree. Smart contracts or other functionality integrated into wallets could also improve usability e.g. regarding irreversibility and user mistakes. Base layer doesn't have to be the final way to use cryptocurrencies and it isn't.

Re: U.S. sanctions cloud provider 'Funnull' as top source of 'pig butchering' scams

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced the same thing in my family. It sucks. I still haven't fully forgiven them (the supposed victim). As much as I agree it's partially mental decline, it's hard for me to imagine it's not at least also partially a character flaw that would get you into this situation

I, tiptoeing here, kind of agree. Am I missing something or do these scams operate on a person's greed? To be sure, I invest in order to see a return. That's greed, I guess? Or maybe not? I think having (unrealistic) expectations of doubling your money in anything shorter than ... about a decade ... should be sending up red flags for anyone. "Make money fast" should fire the same neurons as "Put it all on zero and sp…

The difference between a good salesman and a fraudster is intent. This is weaponised grooming.

These scammers don't have code of ethics, they will push whatever emotional button they think will get the result they want. You're conditioned by society to respond to certain patterning, they take advantage of that in full.

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