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How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

learnwithjeff.com

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Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#161

Post by kamjam »

reinhardt wrote: post #159
mattdeboard wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting. I have no degree. I've taken the time to teach myself the fundamentals. Dueling anecdotes here obviously but we all know plenty of people with CS degrees who are worthless when it comes to tackling a problem, and plenty of people without who are credits to their profession. Programmers program. If someone programs, they're a programmer. My daughter uses scratch to write software. She's 8, the softw…

This sounds as serious as claiming your daughter is a civil engineer because she builds LEGO buildings or she's a biologist because she knows to feed her goldfish. At the end of the day we need some terminology that distinguishes the guy that took a semester to learn MS Access from the one that took 4 years to study CS in university. It's an unfortunate common theme in HN but I can't think off the top of my head othe…

But I've met plenty of people who come out of uni with a CS degree and don't know squat. I totally get the distinction, and there needs to be a distinction between someone playing around, someone who is a junior and someone who is truly brilliant. But it doesn't require a degree to reach that top level.

I only took some CS modules at uni, I learnt everything I know either on the job or off my own back, including OOP, JavaScript/OOJS, advanced HTML and CSS. They didn't teach you the difference between browsers either (I started back in IE4/Netscape days).

What this guys daughter decides that at 18 years old (and now having programmed for 10 years) it's not worth going to uni because a) it'll cost too much and b) might as well get a 4 year head start over everyone else. So by that time she'll have 14 years experience. I think that would count for a hell of a lot more than a formal education. There's nothing magical about programming that a google search will not reveal.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#162

Post by nanijoe »

wilfra wrote: post #94
jyu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problems did you have with the Ruby environment? I went through this several months ago, and maybe can help you get set up, if you're still interested in Ruby.

Couldn't get passed running rvm in my terminal on OS X =/

...then don't use rvm..there is a version of ruby that comes pre-installed on your Mac, use it. Get one ruby book and read through it, don't worry if you don't understand everything the first time, by the second time you read it, things will make more sense. Also work through the examples in the book.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#163

Post by elliottcarlson »

jeffreybaird wrote: post #136

So, there have been a lot of negative comments and I understand where they are coming from. I will try to address them as best I can. "Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous." I am working mostly on internal systems and when I venture outside of that I have my own branch write thorough tests and have multiple people check my c…

You have the right attitude about schooling. I never went to school for this, actually I am a high school dropout and never attended University. I have no degrees, and am happy about that. Instead I now have 16 years of real life work experience (and an additional 4 years of programming for myself). I make it a point to learn constantly - whether it is algorithms, compilers, statistics, etc. I have met plenty of people who have that background and still have no clue what they are doing.

Remain passionate about what you are doing - that is what will make you a good programmer.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#164

Post by elliottcarlson »

shousper wrote: post #73

Wow.. so I really could have landed a programming job when I was 13? Damn. Maybe I should have just believed in myself more like this guy. I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people like him are let loose on. Awesome that he's passionate and landed something, but underneath it just makes me cringe because I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally sk…

"I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday"

Passion makes one want to learn more, and constantly improve. People who love what they do will listen to others advice and are able to be molded in to a great developer. Without that passion, you are just doing your job - and when it is "just" a job, then you aren't giving it your 100%.

Maybe blame the "shithouse" quality of work on the person, and not their background. Additionally - take the time to correct those people and guide them. If you are that experienced, become a mentor instead of a critic.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#165

Post by joshlegs »

borplk wrote: post #120
technotony wrote: post #30

It's really frustrating reading all the negative comments here. What happened to positive support for people in our community? This guy had a passion, worked his butt off and got a good result... I'm sure he'll go on to many more good things in the future. We should applaud and celebrate this, not knock down how he's not a senior developer yet. Congratulations Jeff!!

It is great to see these posts and I absolutely applaud him for what he has achieved. Programming, like any other profession takes time to master, how would you react to "How to become a brain surgeon in less than 6 months"? If you were to have a brain surgery would you choose the guy who was unemployed 6 months ago, or the other one who has been performing these surgeries for the last 20 years, every day? My point,…

So I take it you'd never hire someone who is just graduated either, based on your argument? Of course there is a learning curve to anything, even brain surgery. If he has basic ability, why not hire him? It seems the company knows what it is getting itself into. As someone else pointed out, it's a junior position -- they're not looking him to be a project manager or anything.

Not to mention that the consequences of hiring a noob programmer vs. hiring a noob brain surgeon are on totally different levels ....

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#166

Post by joshlegs »

reinhardt wrote: post #75
mattdeboard wrote: post #56

I got some of these same bitter, angry, defensive responses when I posted my "how I became a developer" post a while back. I dunno what it is about programmers here but for some reason "programmer" is considered some sacred title you have to earn. Whatever.

Right on! The nerve of some programmers to think their profession is in the same league with the big boys that need college and university degrees! Who do they think they are, some kind of scientists or engineers?

Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you're good at something ...

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#167

Post by TheCowboy »

Wilduck wrote: post #78
hackerbob wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm debating whether to learn Python or Ruby. And the initial post as well as this one has me leaning towards Ruby despite all the good things that have been said about Python. Are there non CS majors out there that picked up Python as a first language and had doors opened for them?

I majored in Economics and taught myself Python starting my Sophomore year of college. I am now gainfully employed in a job creating modeles (economic and otherwise, essentially R&D) for the rail industry. My day to day activities consists of writing Python code, and my ability to rapidly prototype ideas with Python was one of the major reasons I was hired. That being said, don't debate, just pick one and go with it.…

If one is starting to learn on their own in their 2nd or 3rd year in college, I think Python is definitely a good place to start. You will have more doors still open to you as a college student as far as internships go.

I also think people who are still in college might as well take the intro classes so they can take the more advanced data structures and algorithms classes, in addition to extra maths.

It's also good to be around other people who are studying CS while in university. The networking benefits shouldn't be underestimated. And making friends with people who are also passionate about the topic is great for many other reasons.

Re: How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

#169

Post by slurgfest »

sp4rki wrote: post #143
slurgfest wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-taught programmers get a bad rap for multiple reasons; because people with degrees want to protect their market value and ego, because programmers have a tendency to act very competitively and arrogantly toward other programmers, and because the industry's business culture is so absolutely intolerant of perceived weakness and negativity. There are hardly any companies which did not decide that they require 'A pl…

I agree completely. But I think that both subsets, the degree laden and the "no degrees allowed" crowd both apply the same labeling towards one another. Get's to a point where no one who's hiring for a worthwhile company cares about computer science degrees and cares more about exposure, references, and past experience. I think the industry is becoming more hostile towards both, no degree and degree types all the sam…

I hold that the hostility is not really contingent on how good you are, but rather on perceived weakness. Most programmers intentionally try to make others feel and look incompetent, while trying themselves to come off like badasses. Partly a matter of being socially inept, partly of a macho culture in the field. And it's only aggravated when you have those programmers interviewing candidates... This is independent of ability - there are plenty of morons calling themselves A-players. You have to play that game or you will be seen as weak and torn apart.

That is NOT a good thing. For example, it is actively driving women who are interested in computers and good at programming away from the industry. Who wants to deal with the boys' club?

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