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PC obsolescence is obsolete

extremetech.com

11–20 of 124 posts

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#11
Core i7? PC Hardware hit a usability plateau with the Core 2 Duo. For modest tasks, my 4.5 year old thinkpad and home desktop are both Core 2 Duo and perform most tasks fabulously. I do look forward to an upgrade but I have thought the same thing that this article states - that PCs are lasting much much longer than they used to.

What is more interesting is smaller hardware. Mini-ITX systems, The RaspberryPi, and ATMEL/Arduino systems. Writing C code for a 16k ATMEL is a great way to appreciate the hardware in an 'older' PC.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#12
post #7
post #4

I'd say that this is even more valid for home servers. Of the 7 spare boxes I have, five are 5+ years old while two are 2 year old shit home laptops (Inspiron yay!). These were all under $50 a piece when you factor in that 3 were free. All of these guys sit on ubuntu server or archlinux and never have problems. Hell, you can go buy surplus/ old 620's from corporate shops for < $100 and build yourself a full Beowulf c…

Home servers? I've always used incredibly out-of-date machines as home servers. There has never really been a market for powerful home servers. I had a Pentium 166 with 80MB of EDO ram and a 1GB hard disk (bought new in 1996 as a P120 with 16MB of ram) until the end of 2005 as a home server, running Windows 2000.

There is a valid case for "powerful" home servers. Centrally backing up all the PCs in the house and streaming media to computers/TVs/consoles/tablets are two things I do in my house with my server. Granted it's not a brand new system, but it's a Core 2 Quad with 8GB of RAM, 20TB of hard drive space, and a Radeon 5700. Streaming and storing HD video isn't cheap. This centralized server is more cost-effective and convenient than all of my roommates having the media stored locally, though.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#13

No doubt it has been replaced by device obsolescence, where the screen, camera, wireless radio, etc. are bundled together and improvements in any one component compels the purchase of a whole new unit.

Sad, but true. Faced with the reality that well-designed, flexible, modular systems have simply become too good, manufacturers are now effectively building in forced obsolescence, either tying components together (the Apple way) or arbitrarily declaring that only certain combinations are permitted (which also works with consumables, like the way my HP colour printer refused to print a black and white document the other day until I replaced an empty colour toner cartridge).

Software seems to be going the same way. SaaS is a fairly transparent rip-off in many cases. Certain big-ticket professional software vendors restrict sales to a network of resellers they can control, who dutifully pull last year's version as soon as this year's is available, so if you want to buy an extra copy to go with the 10 you already have, you can't (unless you upgrade your entire organisation to maintain compatibility).

Bridging the gap nicely are drivers. Here we see a range of dubious techniques. One popular one seems to be releasing equipment with drivers for certian specific operating systems that are available at the time, but then conveniently not releasing any drivers to support new operating systems released within what would otherwise be the normal lifetime of the device, thus artificially shortening its life often by many years. Another good trick (I'm looking at you nVidia) is to take essentially the same hardware, but sell one version with nerfed drivers and another premium (sorry, "workstation") version with "certified" drivers that actually use the hardware to its full capabilities.

I'm a little surprised that we haven't yet seen more people pushing back against these obviously customer-hostile trends, because a lot of people are spending a lot more money and suffering a lot more hassle than they should have to. Certainly some rip-off merchants do come unstuck; I've heard about what would have been extremely lucrative sales of very expensive specialist equipment that got flushed when the prospective customer discovered some form of artificial nerfing in software and took their cash to someone else who didn't do that. But it seems that everyday hardware and software are in one big race to the bottom.

Even premium products, like those high-end graphics cards and professional software installations with their multi-thousand price tags per unit, seem to be tolerated because almost everyone is doing it now. Perhaps this is partly because the more honest competition mostly comes from smaller organisations in the hardware field or in software's case via independent software houses and open source communities, and these kinds of suppliers are (rightly or wrongly, probably a bit of both) regarded as not being up to the job of supplying Serious Business Customers(TM).

What I haven't yet figured out is why this is still happening. Do you know anyone who, in either a personal or a professional capacity, actually thinks any of this stuff is done to help them, or that spending money on these things is a good deal? In a logical market, we would expect competition to spring up and exploit that vulnerability, promoting brands based on honest dealings and good quality, almost certainly charging a higher price for it, but with a greater perceived value that justifies that price. And yet, this doesn't seem to be happening, which suggests that many of the markets in technology industries are not effectively competitive, or some of the big name players are in practice dominant or outright monopolies even if they're not formally recognised as such.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#14

Core i7? PC Hardware hit a usability plateau with the Core 2 Duo. For modest tasks, my 4.5 year old thinkpad and home desktop are both Core 2 Duo and perform most tasks fabulously. I do look forward to an upgrade but I have thought the same thing that this article states - that PCs are lasting much much longer than they used to. What is more interesting is smaller hardware. Mini-ITX systems, The RaspberryPi, and ATME…

I agree that there was a plateau slightly earlier, but I imagine Nehalem was used as an example because it's consistent with the 4 year cycle mentioned earlier.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#16

Core i7? PC Hardware hit a usability plateau with the Core 2 Duo. For modest tasks, my 4.5 year old thinkpad and home desktop are both Core 2 Duo and perform most tasks fabulously. I do look forward to an upgrade but I have thought the same thing that this article states - that PCs are lasting much much longer than they used to. What is more interesting is smaller hardware. Mini-ITX systems, The RaspberryPi, and ATME…

It is funny that hardware has taken a turn towards slower/lower-end. Appliance computing, I guess. There was a mad dash to make everything as fast as possible, then when it was faster than really required, attention shifted to making computers that are specifically designed for various tasks. Why have one computer that's not really good at anything (but does it fast enough to not care) when you can have a half dozen tiny and power-efficient computers that are great at their job (so good that you don't notice how slow they really are)?

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#17
post #8
post #4

I'd say that this is even more valid for home servers. Of the 7 spare boxes I have, five are 5+ years old while two are 2 year old shit home laptops (Inspiron yay!). These were all under $50 a piece when you factor in that 3 were free. All of these guys sit on ubuntu server or archlinux and never have problems. Hell, you can go buy surplus/ old 620's from corporate shops for < $100 and build yourself a full Beowulf c…

What's the power usage of old PCs like that? I've been using a sheeva plug as my server at home because it only uses something like 5 watts. It seems like ARM servers are the best choice for home servers. They have adequate processing power and are cheap.

None of these have over 350W PSU's, and I don't think any of these rigs will draw anywhere close to that power. All I have is anecdotal evidence that my electric bill has increased by maybe $14-$20 a year. Running my stereo for a day probably eats more power than these things take all year. Plus, my livingroom in my apartment stays nice and warm during the midwest winters. I'm pretty happy with spaceheaters with processing power :)

edit: the real issue is that I can't get a cable connection in my neighborhood with higher than .7mbit up, so it's not like I 'm serving loads of content. I use these for running different tasks usually. Two are dedicated DB servers and the other 3 run whatever projects I'm consulting on this/ that week.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#18
post #8
post #4

I'd say that this is even more valid for home servers. Of the 7 spare boxes I have, five are 5+ years old while two are 2 year old shit home laptops (Inspiron yay!). These were all under $50 a piece when you factor in that 3 were free. All of these guys sit on ubuntu server or archlinux and never have problems. Hell, you can go buy surplus/ old 620's from corporate shops for < $100 and build yourself a full Beowulf c…

What's the power usage of old PCs like that? I've been using a sheeva plug as my server at home because it only uses something like 5 watts. It seems like ARM servers are the best choice for home servers. They have adequate processing power and are cheap.

I also have a sheeva plug as my server, but if i did it over I would choose to grab an mac mini. My big jump to the sheeva was the power usage, but then I found out the mini only uses 12W! Along with the 12W you get a x86, with hd, cd drive, wifi, etc on a box that I can easily load linux (upgrading the sheeva's kernel isn't the easiest...) and in a few years when done with it I can easily sell the mini unlike the sheeva.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#19
post #8
post #4

I'd say that this is even more valid for home servers. Of the 7 spare boxes I have, five are 5+ years old while two are 2 year old shit home laptops (Inspiron yay!). These were all under $50 a piece when you factor in that 3 were free. All of these guys sit on ubuntu server or archlinux and never have problems. Hell, you can go buy surplus/ old 620's from corporate shops for < $100 and build yourself a full Beowulf c…

What's the power usage of old PCs like that? I've been using a sheeva plug as my server at home because it only uses something like 5 watts. It seems like ARM servers are the best choice for home servers. They have adequate processing power and are cheap.

I use a VIA x86 system for my server.

18W peak from the wall, no fan (which is one less moving part to fail). Since it replaced an old P4 system (200W from the wall), I shaved $30/month off my electric bill

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#20
post #9

> Now, compare an early Core i7 system (Nehalem) against what’s shipping today (Ivy Bridge). Clock speeds are up a bit, and there are cheaper/lower-end options available, but the Core i7-920 that launched at 2.67GHz with four cores and eight threads is still absolutely capable of powering the latest games and applications. A big, big factor in the slowdown of obsolecense is that the current generation of consoles has…

In a way the article yells out trouble for Microsoft and friends. If their customers hardware from the last five years is "good enough" they wont go looking for an upgrade. (They will go looking for a _new_ toy with the ipad though). If next generation consoles really did drive desktop sales it would have been in Microsoft's interests to get out the next generation xbox sooner right?
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