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US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#51

Post by pengaru »

ethbr1 wrote: post #48
pengaru wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. No. They were produced at scale during his administration to combat the pandemic, but were developed well before that, with support from a government actually funding vaccine R&D: > Moderna was also awarded a $25,000,000 grant by DARPA through a program > Autonomous Diagnostics to Enable Prevention an…

The history of DARPA funding mRNA vaccine platforms should be more widely known, because it's exactly what the government should be doing. DARPA identified novel pathogens with pandemic potential as a key threat to the US (and everyone else), identified mRNA vaccine platforms as something that would allow more rapid responses to novel pathogens, and invested in it. And then when exactly that happened -- there were mR…

When the crackpots learn DARPA funded Moderna's development of mRNA vaccines ahead of COVID19, all they hear is the government caused the pandemic.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#52

Post by jghn »

nailer wrote: post #36
jghn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First they were supposed to prevent COVID This was never the case. That's not how vaccines work. > There were tons of surprise side effects especially relating to women’s periods getting screwed up. citation from an actual health study that this actually caused health risks? > when children were not in any serious danger. Again, citation needed? > Anyone who investigated the origin story became spontaneously racist…

> > First they were supposed to prevent COVID > This was never the case. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines aren't supposed to prevent disease? That's a very bold claim - what are your supporting arguments?

Vaccines are designed to reduce likelihood of contracting disease and/or reduce the effects of disease if contracted. The COVID vaccines did both of these things

Vaccines are never perfect barriers. It's better to think in terms of population scales. if enough people are vaccinated against a disease, then most of the people who would have contracted it will not. And that means a large reduction in the amount of that disease floating around, and that effect compounds.

For you to claim otherwise is either naïveté or trolling

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#53

Post by exceptione »

ethbr1 wrote: post #46
exceptione wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But Trump's Base decided for Trump about this issue. Trump leads from behind on this one. 1. The base doesn't decide out of thin air, the USA audience have been primed for decades with `government = bad` (anything `social = bad` really). We have evidence of orchestrated anti covid campaigns on Twitter, but the soil was well prepared for it. 2. Trump always leads from behind. He is allowed some personal space and he…

Vaccine skepticism (and the broader medical skepticism) is a weird one though. Because it's patently counterproductive -- modern medical science saves lives. So what you really have is a bunch of people getting riled up about something because they don't currently need it, then making dumb choices at critical moments, then denying their actions caused consequences if they have bad luck. A partner was a critical care…

It is weird, but what we do know is that is surprisingly easy to compel people into self-harm.

  > Patently counterproductive
Yes, but that is the gist. What you have got is the problem of the few who fear the numerous. Where you have power and wealth concentration, there will be a push to autocracy. Zero sum. Might makes right.

It is an international phenomenon, where (political) organizations and people copy and sync each others playbooks. Look at the Brexit, look at Orban, look at the tariffs, look at expelling talent and science, look at the killing of the free enterprise.

Fundamentally, parasites don't care about the host. If the host dies, they jump on the next one. That is why the Kremlin focuses on Ukraine and the rest, while the USA starts to talk about Greenland and Canada.

For normal people it is too crazy to believe, so we don't believe it.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#54

Post by drannex »

leoh wrote: post #40
matthewdgreen wrote: post #2

This seems kind of bad.

Fortunately, Moderna is well capitalized and will likely find ways to continue development of said vaccine if the risks (financial, health-wise, etc.) are outweighed by anticipated benefits; this is one of the advantages of capitalistic systems. That said, certainly, yes, cancelling a contract like this is not ideal.

context: worked in network security and automation for intra-government health departments throughout COVID, so I heard everything and felt everything.

--

The other problem with the cancellation: Budgets are likely already set, personnel hired, and roadmaps planned based on the expectation of secured funding and secured funding _sources_. Funding doesn't just mean cash being deposited, it usually on this level is additionally knowledge funding and sharing between organizations.

Cancelling funding, like this, also reduces input from the funder, the knowledge share, and expectations.

Now, you will have legions of [1]technicians, scientists, researchers, testers, legal, business, marketing, safety, regulation experts, engineers, hiring, and even HR,[/1] that are going to have to rework likely _months_ of planning and expectations.

One side is that now everything is in chaos and there are a lot of people that were part of this without a roadmap forward. Second side is that now you have a authority or expectations vacuum based on uncertainty and now there will be an internal 'war' between ideological camps and ideas on how to move forward, meaning loss of internal communication. The third part? Now, you have legions of *[^1] who are exhausted and feel like their time has been wasted and now are just frustrated.

This isn't even discussing that multi-year budgets and quotas have been set, and now to supplement the funding and knowledge drop, they will have to pull from other areas, causing a cascading effect.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#55

Post by dekhn »

Alive-in-2025 wrote: post #32
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described working in cyber security. The difference is you're to blame if the disaster happens.

Trump is lauded for stopping the libs no matter what destructive & unnecessary actions he foments that hurt his supporters. It's a now daily exercise to see an article about huge Medicaid cuts planned in the stupid big bill that will hurt his supporters. Then there are the requisite quotes from people who voted for him, and are really concerned with lots of fraud in Medicaid AND are set to lose their just admitted cr…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_one's_nose_to_spit...

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_bomb_Voronezh

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#56

Post by matthewdgreen »

bediger4000 wrote: post #9

The ideological revulsion about mRNA vaccines in particular is an interesting phenomenon. The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. He mentioned Operation Warp Speed in some of his 2020 rallies, and got booed for it. Trump's Base decided mRNA was bad, with influencers making bizarre predictions about the vaccinated bleeding out in the streets,…

My understanding is the mRNA vaccines are (1) the best hope for developing a fast vaccine in the face of a new, really-dangerous virus, and (2) incidentally a great hope against cancer. I'm sure this doesn't mean the end of funding for those other things, but I imagine it means less funding.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#57

Post by matthewdgreen »

amluto wrote: post #27
boroboro4 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is so unfortunate given the potential mRNA vaccines and therapies have. They would have made fighting flu so much easier (for the context current flu vaccines take a lot of time to be made each season and hence not very agile towards dominant strain and sometimes miss it a lot, mRNA potentially improves this).

I would have liked to see some actual studies of whether multiple doses, over the course of years, of mRNA vaccines are a good idea. Take a look at: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327 and related papers. Is the propensity to generate IgG4 antibodies specific to mRNA vaccines? Is it a problem? It seems entirely plausible that an mRNA flu vaccine would look amazing for one season and less amazing ye…

But answering this question is exactly why public funding is so important. If you're concerned about mRNA having long-term downsides, then continued government funding is exactly the right mechanism to force manufacturers to conduct the long-term studies you'd need to figure it out. It does not seem like it's necessarily in the manufacturer's interest to do these studies, if they're using their own funds and trying to turn a profit.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#58

Post by g42gregory »

bediger4000 wrote: post #9

The ideological revulsion about mRNA vaccines in particular is an interesting phenomenon. The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. He mentioned Operation Warp Speed in some of his 2020 rallies, and got booed for it. Trump's Base decided mRNA was bad, with influencers making bizarre predictions about the vaccinated bleeding out in the streets,…

Why do we need to engage in ideological discussions and feelings about the mRNA vaccines?

Can somebody just post a link to the double-blind, placebo-based safety study of mRNA vaccine (e.g. COVID-19), to put this to rest once and for all?

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#59

Post by ethbr1 »

exceptione wrote: post #53
ethbr1 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine skepticism (and the broader medical skepticism) is a weird one though. Because it's patently counterproductive -- modern medical science saves lives. So what you really have is a bunch of people getting riled up about something because they don't currently need it, then making dumb choices at critical moments, then denying their actions caused consequences if they have bad luck. A partner was a critical care…

It is weird, but what we do know is that is surprisingly easy to compel people into self-harm. > Patently counterproductive Yes, but that is the gist. What you have got is the problem of the few who fear the numerous. Where you have power and wealth concentration, there will be a push to autocracy. Zero sum. Might makes right. It is an international phenomenon, where (political) organizations and people copy and sync…

> Where you have power and wealth concentration, there will be a push to autocracy.

Agree, though I think the why/how is interesting.

In watching it play out in several countries: (1) wealth concentration builds resentment against a minority (wealthy/elites) by the majority (poor), (2) someone from the wealthy/elite hijacks the majority dissatisfaction by saying they'll "get" the minority, (3) democracy sweeps that someone into power, (4) turns out, anyone wealthy/elite doesn't really give a shit about egalitarianism, and enriches themselves

I mean, when Brits vote in Boris Johnson or Americans Trump, do they really expect either to compromise their own wealth for the good of the nation, when it comes to that?

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#60

Post by nailer »

jghn wrote: post #52
nailer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > First they were supposed to prevent COVID > This was never the case. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines aren't supposed to prevent disease? That's a very bold claim - what are your supporting arguments?

Vaccines are designed to reduce likelihood of contracting disease and/or reduce the effects of disease if contracted. The COVID vaccines did both of these things Vaccines are never perfect barriers. It's better to think in terms of population scales. if enough people are vaccinated against a disease, then most of the people who would have contracted it will not. And that means a large reduction in the amount of that…

> Vaccines are designed to reduce likelihood of contracting disease and/or reduce the effects of disease if contracted.

You previously stated "(Vaccines being supposed to prevent Covid) was never the case." It sounds like you are claiming that vaccines prevented transmission of Covid at acceptable rates but you've provided no supporting arguments.

> Vaccines are never perfect barriers.

This is a straw man. Nobody in the conversation claimed vaccines were supposed to prevent Covid 100% of the time, just they were originally claimed to prevent people from contracting Covid and generally did not do so. I am sure you already aware of this and are projecting regarding your accusations of trolling.

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