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Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

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Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a number of courses from the NNG Group, over the years, including from Nielsen and Tog (I don’t think Don Norman ever gave classes). It taught me great respect for usability. Designers hated Nielsen.

Certain designers may have hated Nielsen, but their users hated them, and they have more users hating them than Nielsen has designers hating him, and users matter much more than designers, so I think he came out way ahead. Bruce Tognazzini is the OG GUI Guru of 80's user interface design! https://asktog.com/atc/about-bruce-tognazzini/ Tog not just invented and implemented, but also deeply rationalized and documented…

> the "drag delay" of popping up "pull right" submenus

Funny enough, this was actually removed in the early versions of OS X: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/1999/12/macos-x-dp2/#:~:text...

But today it seems to be back.

Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#103

This article put Nielsen in the corner of "technically correct", but the influence he had on me at least was a strong focus on "empirically correct". i.e. doing actual tests (with humans) on what kind of things work to convey information. He did this to the detriment of "looking good", which is why his stuff ended up looking "hopelessly outdated", but I think he was on the right side of the fight.

I always had more respect for Nielsen’s lineage of human-computer interaction than I did for Nielsen himself. At the time I remember thinking how neither designers nor classic HCI people (or programmers) really got the web. Nielsen was at least focused on the web, but the problem is that he was fixated on user expectations for a brand new medium without recognizing that it was early days and would inevitably evolve.…

Ben Shneiderman's the "hyperlinks should always be blue" guy. ;)

https://blog.mozilla.org/en/internet-culture/why-are-hyperli...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29897811

Seriously, while he was the first to use blue for links in HyperTIES, there was a historical context (like the IBM PC's color palette), and he never meant it in a "640k ought to be enough for anybody" way. His reasons for recommending blue are based on empirical studies, measuring visibility, comprehension, retention, etc.

Blue is good not just because users recognize it (they didn't in 1983), but for how it stands out, because of how the human visual system works. He was originally a fan of cyan aka "light blue".

Ben Shneiderman wrote:

>"Red highlighting made the links more visible, but reduced the user’s capacity to read and retain the content of the text… blue was visible, on both white and black backgrounds and didn’t interfere with retention,"

>"We conducted approximately 20 empirical studies of many design variables which were reported at the Hypertext 1987 conference and in array of journals and books. Issues such as the use of light blue highlighting as the default color for links, the inclusion of a history stack, easy access to a BACK button, article length, and global string search were all studied empirically.”

>"My students conducted more than a dozen experiments (unpublished) on different ways of highlighting and selection using current screens, e.g. green screens only permitted, bold, underscore, blinking, and I think italic(???). When we had a color screen we tried different color highlighted links. While red made the links easier to spot, user comprehension and recollection of the content declined. We chose the light blue, which Tim adopted."

HyperTIES Discussions from Hacker News:

https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac...

Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#105

This article put Nielsen in the corner of "technically correct", but the influence he had on me at least was a strong focus on "empirically correct". i.e. doing actual tests (with humans) on what kind of things work to convey information. He did this to the detriment of "looking good", which is why his stuff ended up looking "hopelessly outdated", but I think he was on the right side of the fight.

I always had more respect for Nielsen’s lineage of human-computer interaction than I did for Nielsen himself. At the time I remember thinking how neither designers nor classic HCI people (or programmers) really got the web. Nielsen was at least focused on the web, but the problem is that he was fixated on user expectations for a brand new medium without recognizing that it was early days and would inevitably evolve.…

Honestly, I believe that the Web would have been better had we stuck to those expectations more diligently and evolved more slowly and thoughtfully. That one can does not imply that one should.

Blue links and purple visited links were fine. And now on most sites there is no differentiation, and it’s sometimes difficult to tell what is a link, and a lot of sites don’t even bother linking. This is not an improvement!

Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one is that? Let me guess: the one who's into blockchain now?

Zeldman is dead*, and Nielsen is still running NNG. I don't think he's interested in getting into politics. Enough people hate on him, just for being the skunk at the graphic design picnic. * [EDIT] I’m wrong. Glad to be wrong. 'E's not dead. 'E's pining.

Nielsen hasn't been at NNG for a couple of years and I don't think he was fully engaged in the years before that (Norman isn't there either).

Don't bother with Nielsen today, he's been rambling about how working on accessibility won't matter because AI will create custom UIs for every user.

Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#108
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then, it felt like he was one of the rare few people who was actually focused on serving the needs of the user. Those were the days when too many sites thought it was a good idea to show a Flash splash screen before entering a site, and designers seemed to have a grudge against text that was big enough for a normal person to read.

That 2Advanced flash intro tho...

I can still hear the music

Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#109
Any article on 90s Web Design gurus would not be complete without at least a mention of Jeffery Veen. HotWired completely defined the aesthetic of the 90s web, breaking all sorts of conventions to create something totally new.

Some point along the way I lost my copy of HotWired Style: Principles of Web Design – so I picked up a new one. It's an amazing time capsule of what that time was like, and even if the technology has changed it's still so interesting to me from a standpoint of working within constraints, and understanding a new medium for itself rather than just as a thing to host the previous medium.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1864

Re: Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

#110

This article put Nielsen in the corner of "technically correct", but the influence he had on me at least was a strong focus on "empirically correct". i.e. doing actual tests (with humans) on what kind of things work to convey information. He did this to the detriment of "looking good", which is why his stuff ended up looking "hopelessly outdated", but I think he was on the right side of the fight.

It depends on how you define the "fight."

In the Nielsen days, two things were happening:

1. People were creating quirky, whimsical, odd corners of the internet for nobody but themselves. Art.

2. Entrepreneurs were starting to build sophisticated web applications for other people, i.e. customers.

Nielsen's dogma was excellent for the latter, and disastrous for the former.

History has been kind to Nielsen in the way that the modern web has lost most/all of its charm for the sake of answering the question "but how does it make money?"

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