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US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

reuters.com

21–30 of 84 posts

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still excited about MRNA vaccines (and therapies). What’s wrong with Covid vaccines apart from particular politicians demonizing them and their respective electorate getting all crazy about non existing issues in their heads?

Off the top of my head: First they were supposed to prevent COVID. That turned out to not be true, so then they were supposed to lessen the symptoms. Everyone I know who still frequently gets COVID had the shot. Anyone paying attention was lied to. There were tons of surprise side effects especially relating to women’s periods getting screwed up. They were administered to children, when children were not in any serio…

> there was tremendous pressure from left wing institutions

vdL would like to have a word with you. /s

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still excited about MRNA vaccines (and therapies). What’s wrong with Covid vaccines apart from particular politicians demonizing them and their respective electorate getting all crazy about non existing issues in their heads?

Off the top of my head: First they were supposed to prevent COVID. That turned out to not be true, so then they were supposed to lessen the symptoms. Everyone I know who still frequently gets COVID had the shot. Anyone paying attention was lied to. There were tons of surprise side effects especially relating to women’s periods getting screwed up. They were administered to children, when children were not in any serio…

> First they were supposed to prevent COVID. That turned out to not be true,

In fact, the vaccines did a fantastic job at preventing covid's spread. The problem was that they were developed for (and had clinical trial results for) the variant-free covid-classic. By the time they were widely deployed, the virus in circulation was already one of several more-easily-spread variants.

Had covid not mutated into variants, it seems very likely that widespread vaccination would have given us true 'herd immunity'.

> That turned out to not be true, so then they were supposed to lessen the symptoms.

They were also always supposed to do this, by making infection less severe and more easily fought-off. Many vaccines operate this way, including the seasonal flu vaccine.

Remember that until clinical trial results came in, we weren't sure exactly what the vaccine was going to do. Something that "merely" helped keep elderly people alive would have been good enough, and by that standard what we ended up with was a fantastic success.

> Everyone I know who still frequently gets COVID had the shot.

As phrased, you've walked right into selection bias; perhaps those people you know choose to get the booster vaccines because they recognize they're more likely to be exposed to covid.

> There were tons of surprise side effects especially relating to women’s periods getting screwed up.

Treatments have side effects, but for pandemic covid the right comparison was "vaccine plus none-to-mild covid" versus "no vaccine plus unmitigated component."

Infection with covid has plenty of 'side effects', and women frequently report disrupted menstrual cycles from infections.

> The official story was that we were trying to make COVID die out before it mutated again, but to do that would have required vaccinating all animals as well.

As far as I'm aware, every circulating covid variant that we've traced has likely come from mutations inside humans, not zoonotic intermixing.

> Despite the above, there was tremendous pressure from left wing institutions to vaccinate everyone, proving that their values were about pharmaceutical profits instead of my body my choice.

Now you're just being disingenuous. "Left wing institutions" were at the forefront of vaccine equality among nations, arguing strongly for coordinated buying approaches to ensure access to developing nations. If anything, that contributed to early politicization of the vaccine as the counter-reaction was "if this vaccine is so good, we need to have it for ourselves first."

The values involved were simply that of the common/societal good against individualist freedom, the same ones at play in lockdown/distancing rules.

> Anyone who investigated the origin story became spontaneously racist. But then later morality reversed and it was fine.

Note that this has absolutely nothing to do with vaccines.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#23
post #3

Most people find it difficult to bend reality to match their worldview. Doesn’t stop people from trying. The hope is that the number of people affected from these efforts is minimized.

Nobody throws you a parade for preventing a disaster from happening.

Let the disaster happen though and you have a chance to look like a hero!

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still excited about MRNA vaccines (and therapies). What’s wrong with Covid vaccines apart from particular politicians demonizing them and their respective electorate getting all crazy about non existing issues in their heads?

Off the top of my head: First they were supposed to prevent COVID. That turned out to not be true, so then they were supposed to lessen the symptoms. Everyone I know who still frequently gets COVID had the shot. Anyone paying attention was lied to. There were tons of surprise side effects especially relating to women’s periods getting screwed up. They were administered to children, when children were not in any serio…

> Everyone I know who still frequently gets COVID had the shot.

Your observation matches what I'm seeing among the many people I know. One middle-aged man in particular, who's quite active and otherwise healthy, got at least 3 of those shots back then so he could travel overseas. There were at least 2 separate international trips he subsequently went on where he got sick on the way home, tested positive once back, and then needed a week or two to recover. He still tends to get quite sick after trips now, but he ran out of those home tests, so he can't confirm the cause.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#25

The ideological revulsion about mRNA vaccines in particular is an interesting phenomenon. The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. He mentioned Operation Warp Speed in some of his 2020 rallies, and got booed for it. Trump's Base decided mRNA was bad, with influencers making bizarre predictions about the vaccinated bleeding out in the streets,…

Which is so unfortunate given the potential mRNA vaccines and therapies have. They would have made fighting flu so much easier (for the context current flu vaccines take a lot of time to be made each season and hence not very agile towards dominant strain and sometimes miss it a lot, mRNA potentially improves this).

>Which is so unfortunate given the potential mRNA vaccines and therapies have.

There's what should be a glaringly obvious lesson about ends and means here but nobody will learn it.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#26

The ideological revulsion about mRNA vaccines in particular is an interesting phenomenon. The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. He mentioned Operation Warp Speed in some of his 2020 rallies, and got booed for it. Trump's Base decided mRNA was bad, with influencers making bizarre predictions about the vaccinated bleeding out in the streets,…

  > But Trump's Base decided for Trump about this issue. Trump leads from behind on this one.

1. The base doesn't decide out of thin air, the USA audience have been primed for decades with `government = bad` (anything `social = bad` really). We have evidence of orchestrated anti covid campaigns on Twitter, but the soil was well prepared for it.

2. Trump always leads from behind. He is allowed some personal space and he uses that for personal profiteering. He flip flops on all important issues, policy does not interest him and it is way too difficult for him anyways. He gives public performances when he thinks it buys him respect.

3. If the public stops focusing on Trump's drama, they could regain bandwidth to make a proper analysis. But they need the help of an oligarch owned press, staffed by people who, like the general public, have to unshackle some self-harming beliefs.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#27

The ideological revulsion about mRNA vaccines in particular is an interesting phenomenon. The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. He mentioned Operation Warp Speed in some of his 2020 rallies, and got booed for it. Trump's Base decided mRNA was bad, with influencers making bizarre predictions about the vaccinated bleeding out in the streets,…

Which is so unfortunate given the potential mRNA vaccines and therapies have. They would have made fighting flu so much easier (for the context current flu vaccines take a lot of time to be made each season and hence not very agile towards dominant strain and sometimes miss it a lot, mRNA potentially improves this).

I would have liked to see some actual studies of whether multiple doses, over the course of years, of mRNA vaccines are a good idea. Take a look at:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327

and related papers. Is the propensity to generate IgG4 antibodies specific to mRNA vaccines? Is it a problem? It seems entirely plausible that an mRNA flu vaccine would look amazing for one season and less amazing years later. Or not.

The COVID vaccine trials were very focused on the efficacy of a 1-3 dose series, in people with no previous immunity, at preventing disease or reducing its severity over a period of weeks to months after the vaccine series. This is not at all the situation with influenza or the situation now with COVID.

Compare to vaccines like MMR or Varicella, which were, and still are, studied over a period of many years.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#28
post #3

Most people find it difficult to bend reality to match their worldview. Doesn’t stop people from trying. The hope is that the number of people affected from these efforts is minimized.

Nobody throws you a parade for preventing a disaster from happening. Let the disaster happen though and you have a chance to look like a hero!

You just described working in cyber security. The difference is you're to blame if the disaster happens.

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#29

The ideological revulsion about mRNA vaccines in particular is an interesting phenomenon. The vaccines were developed during the first Trump administration. Trump himself wanted credit for developing them. He mentioned Operation Warp Speed in some of his 2020 rallies, and got booed for it. Trump's Base decided mRNA was bad, with influencers making bizarre predictions about the vaccinated bleeding out in the streets,…

[dead]

Re: US cancels funding for Moderna bird flu vaccine

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all misinformation. The vaccine significantly reduced severity of infection, likelihood to become infected at all, and likelihood of transmitting there infection. The side effects impacting periods were incredibly rare, mild and fully disclosed. Children's test scores are still substantially lower now than pre-covid, likely some of that is due to brain damage from the covid virus (remember that the "brain fog…

A female close to me experienced side effects from shedding of the vaccine. She was not initially an “anti-vaxxer.” These symptoms were absolutely not disclosed ahead of time. I’ve seen with my own eyes people who tried to shame me for not getting the vaccine come down with COVID over and over again. When you tell someone that their personal experience and that of their trusted friends is misinformation, you lose all…

Think of it from this perspective: you made a claim but you don't have data to support it. It's easy for individuals to be prone to false conclusions because we often conflate weak correlations as causation, when often times, randomness is a better explanation, or "not sure if causation".
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