Live data from Hacker News

US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

bloomberg.com

431–440 of 568 posts

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#431

I wonder if this means businesses can request the courts order the government to repay their unconstitutionally levied duties - especially when it meant it basically destroyed their ability to do business.

I still can't find evidence of anyone that has actually paid tariffs - nothing seems to be 3x more expensive compared to before the tariffs supposedly kicked in.

You might just be fortunate enough to have not purchased the items that went up. A simple Internet search and you'll find a bunch that did. There were also a lot of goods that ended up in bonded warehouses to wait out the eventual "TACO" (Trump Always Chickens Out) reduction of the tariffs.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#432

It's interesting. Nearly all orders from the executive branch are banned by some federal judge/court now(there are about 100 of federal courts, any one will do). While I don't agree with all the orders, the power of a random federal judge who can issue a nationwide ban relatively easily seems a little too much. To the point that the president is pretty much useless.

It wasn't a random federal judge. It was a three judge panel, one of which appointed by Trump and another appointed by Reagan (the third by Obama).

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly every country that Trump tariffed does have some sort of tariff on the US. Canada has a sizable dairy tariff, for example. Whether that dairy tariff is particularly onerous on the US, worth antagonizing our closest ally for, that would be the political question, but certainly it's definitionally unequal.

Right. The average tariff on US goods applied by the EU is 4.1% IIRC Canada was significantly lower. So having “some sort of a tariff” isn’t that meaningful on its own.

It’s impossible to get the effective tariff rate because everyone works around them with VATs and random things like movie ticket taxes for foreign films that are effective tariffs but not officially counted as such.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#434

I'm not a lawyer or even close to it, but why wouldn't the trump admin use the tariff act of 1930? quote: "Whenever the President shall find as a fact that any foreign country places any burden or disadvantage upon the commerce of the United States by any of the unequal impositions or discriminations aforesaid, he shall, when he finds that the public interest will be served thereby, by proclamation specify and declar…

> why wouldn't the trump admin use the tariff act of 1930?

Probably because they knew it'd be a losing argument.

The court that authored this slip opinion would be unlikely to be persuaded by such an argument, for two reasons.

First, the opinion spends several pages applying the non-delegation and major questions doctrine. Based upon that discussion, I am pretty confident that this court would've found your interpretation of the Tariff Act of 1930 to be an unconstitutional delegation of congressional power. A similar question was asked in the Nixon admin; grep for "Yoshida II" in the PDF.

Second, even if your interpretation of the Tariff Act of 1930 were found to be constitutional by this court, the argument you suggest would still hit a brick wall.

Around page 35, the court cites the President's executive order in finding that the WaRTs are addressing a balance-of-payments issue. The court then notes that Congress specifically delegated narrower presidential authority for actions addressing balance-of-payments deficits. So even if the president were allowed broad emergency powers, and were allowed broad discretion in defining what emergency means, that finding would be irrelevant, because Congress has specifically curtailed the delegation of authority to the President in the case of tariffs addressing balance-of-trade issues.

Specifically, the opinion notes that Section 122 of Trade Act of 1974 limits Presidential authority to response to balance-of-payments problems, such as "a 15 percent cap on tariffs and a maximum duration of 150 days".

The conclusion also specifically addresses your question about emergency powers: "Congress’s enactment of Section 122 indicates that even “large and serious United States balance-of-payments deficits” do not necessitate the use of emergency powers and justify only the President’s imposition of limited remedies subject to enumerated procedural constraints."

(These are not my opinions; I'm just applying the legal reasoning in the slip opinion to your question.)

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#435

It's interesting. Nearly all orders from the executive branch are banned by some federal judge/court now(there are about 100 of federal courts, any one will do). While I don't agree with all the orders, the power of a random federal judge who can issue a nationwide ban relatively easily seems a little too much. To the point that the president is pretty much useless.

It wasn't a random federal judge. It was a three judge panel, one of which appointed by Trump and another appointed by Reagan (the third by Obama).

got that, but I'm talking about the general condition, not the specific one here.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#436

I'm not a lawyer or even close to it, but why wouldn't the trump admin use the tariff act of 1930? quote: "Whenever the President shall find as a fact that any foreign country places any burden or disadvantage upon the commerce of the United States by any of the unequal impositions or discriminations aforesaid, he shall, when he finds that the public interest will be served thereby, by proclamation specify and declar…

You sure have a lot of confidence in the people in power today to think that they could produce something better than was produced 100 years ago when there was still actual debate and bills were read. These people today just pass bills based on it having a catchy sounding title.

My bringing up it's age was mainly about it not being used in a LONG time, so using it now would seem like a hail mary. I made no mention about current day laws, so I'm not sure where your impression came from.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#437

It's interesting. Nearly all orders from the executive branch are banned by some federal judge/court now(there are about 100 of federal courts, any one will do). While I don't agree with all the orders, the power of a random federal judge who can issue a nationwide ban relatively easily seems a little too much. To the point that the president is pretty much useless.

If a lawful order is enjoined by a district court, you can appeal to higher judges. If the higher judges agree with the district court, then you can appeal to the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court agrees with the district court, then the order probably isn't lawful.

this could take years, which essentially blocks whatever the executive branch wanted, quite effectively at minimal cost.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#438

It's interesting. Nearly all orders from the executive branch are banned by some federal judge/court now(there are about 100 of federal courts, any one will do). While I don't agree with all the orders, the power of a random federal judge who can issue a nationwide ban relatively easily seems a little too much. To the point that the president is pretty much useless.

That is why appeals exist.

which could take years to effectively kill all the orders.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#439

It's interesting. Nearly all orders from the executive branch are banned by some federal judge/court now(there are about 100 of federal courts, any one will do). While I don't agree with all the orders, the power of a random federal judge who can issue a nationwide ban relatively easily seems a little too much. To the point that the president is pretty much useless.

They're nearly all banned because they're nearly all illegal. The president is not a king. If Trump followed the law, this wouldn't be happening.

except most of the orders are blocked by the opposite party judges, I would not call it 'illegal' until it went through the supreme court, problem is that it could take years, so the opposite party judges can block pretty much every order at the whim of whatever.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#440
post #200
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Constitution said that the appointment required the advice and consent of the Senate. It had nothing to do with him "trying" or being too "weak", it is called following the law. Trump doesn't do that, and the court rulings are showing that his power to rule via EO is not going to be allowed. The Senate deliberately did not go into recess to avoid Obama having the power to appoint Garland via a recess appointment.…

> McConnell is more to blame for the dysfunction of Congress and the misuse of the Senate than anyone else.

McConnell isn't in charge of the Senate anymore and they're doing a pro forma session against Trump. ("Friday, May 30, 2025 Convene for a pro forma session at 7:00 a.m." [1]).

[1]: https://www.senate.gov/

Post reply on HN