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US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

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Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#231

Post by forgotoldacc »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #215
forgotoldacc wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people really seem to think this is the end of everything. But there are two options here. One is that some other irrelevant and obscure law from 200 years ago is dug up and used to justify the tariffs and another long court battle begins. The other is that the ruling is simply ignored, just like many others, and half the country will cry that the courts are being ignored and justice will rain down soon, and…

> and half the country will cry that the courts are being ignored and justice will rain down soon, and the other half will say hell yeah, ignore those woke courts. Thing is, I think support for these tariffs is way less than 1/2 of the country. Even parts of MAGA have been expressing doubt about the tariffs (or at least the hamfisted way they've been implemented).

Apparently up to about 40% support them, depending on the poll. [1]

That 40% seems absolutely unshakeable in their support. No matter what happens, that group will support it. And 40% is pretty close to half.

[1] https://www.progressivepolicy.org/polling-u-s-public-is-agai...

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#232

Post by wredcoll »

jmyeet wrote: post #224
rayiner wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tariff Act of 1930 reflects the duality between the President’s executive power to conduct foreign policy and Congress’s legislative power to set taxes. Until the early 20th century, tariffs were the primary mechanism for raising federal revenue. So Congress viewed tariffs as a tax, within Congress’s purview. But the 1930 Tariff Act also recognizes that tariffs are also a tool of foreign policy, which is within t…

This idea that the president has unrestricted ability to set foreign policy is an invention of this particular administration. In truth, powers are split between the executive and legislative branches [1]. Most notably, only Congress can declare war, which has been a real sticking point in the last century and why, for example, the Korean War wasn't technically a war (it was a "police action") and why the Vietnam War…

> Most notably, only Congress can declare war, which has been a real sticking point in the last century and why, for example, the Korean War wasn't technically a war (it was a "police action") and why the Vietnam War wasn't either.

I keep seeing this brought up as some kind of "gotcha" point, but those wars involved conscription and billions of dollars of additonal military funding, all of which was presumably approved by congress. I find it hard to imagine a congress that is approving a draft would be averse to signing a war declaration.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#233

Post by conception »

drewcoo wrote: post #209
crummy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember Obama struggling pretty hard to get Obamacare through congress (and it ended up fairly watered down).

And it started as simply rebranded Romneycare (the 2006 MA state plan), so Rs should have found it palatable. And for the first half of Obama's first term, Ds could vote in anything they wanted but we still got a terrible version of a R health care plan. FWIW, Nixoncare, totally blocked by Ted Kennedy because the dems didn't want Nixon's name on anything else that was nice (the Clean Air Act President kept claiming h…

Despite having a super majority on paper, Obama never effectively had one with various R challenges and D health issues in Congress.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#234

Post by firesteelrain »

chneu wrote: post #127
BobbyTables2 wrote: post #89

So when do prices go back down?

No way major corps will lower prices. Just like during covid they'll find excuses. Until a regulatory body investigates them for price fixing nothing will change. So nothing will change. During covid, the soda companies kept raising prices. They claimed supply chain. Then, I think it was the SEC(probably wrong), stepped in and said "We're gonna investigate ya for price fixing" and suddenly soda prices went back down.

It was the FTC investigating grocery retailers in general creating higher prices to protect their profits while the retailers blamed COVID.

Separately, the “Federal Trade Commission sued PepsiCo on Friday, alleging that it has engaged in illegal price discrimination by giving unfair price advantages to one large retailer at the expense of other vendors and consumers.”

1. https://apnews.com/article/ftc-sues-pepsico-price-discrimina...

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#235

Post by Terr_ »

sorcerer-mar wrote: post #228
rayiner wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn’t have to convince the courts of that. The President makes foreign policy, not the courts. As long as the President is plausibly exercising a foreign policy power Congress gave him, the courts don’t get to reweigh the evidence and decide for themselves whether the trade deficits result from other countries placing trade barriers or something else.

How is taxing American importers "foreign policy?"

Exactly. The same nonsense-logic for collecting these taxes could be abused to bypass Congress and give away zillions of taxpayer dollars to anybody (including his own companies) that go: "I just bought lots of Trumpcoin to be patriotic, and I ultra-promise not to do business with Iran or Venezuela or whatever."

Aside: I recommend the phrase "import taxes" over "tariffs", because a disturbingly large portion of my neighbors still don't seem to understand WTF the latter really is.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#236

Post by maxerickson »

rayiner wrote: post #151
wlesieutre wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He would have to convince the courts that I don't like having a trade deficit with anyone somehow means our trading partners are "placing a burden or disadvantage upon the commerce of the United States by any of the unequal impositions or discriminations aforesaid"

He doesn’t have to convince the courts of that. The President makes foreign policy, not the courts. As long as the President is plausibly exercising a foreign policy power Congress gave him, the courts don’t get to reweigh the evidence and decide for themselves whether the trade deficits result from other countries placing trade barriers or something else.

“IEEPA does not authorize any of the worldwide, retaliatory, or trafficking tariff orders,” the panel of judges said in their order Wednesday.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/28/business/us-court-blocks-trum...

That seems to not agree with your "power Congress gave" characterization.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#238

Post by eli_gottlieb »

rayiner wrote: post #151
wlesieutre wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He would have to convince the courts that I don't like having a trade deficit with anyone somehow means our trading partners are "placing a burden or disadvantage upon the commerce of the United States by any of the unequal impositions or discriminations aforesaid"

He doesn’t have to convince the courts of that. The President makes foreign policy, not the courts. As long as the President is plausibly exercising a foreign policy power Congress gave him, the courts don’t get to reweigh the evidence and decide for themselves whether the trade deficits result from other countries placing trade barriers or something else.

Time to relitigate Marbury vs Madison, then? POTUS is currently in defiance of court orders on a number of issues, after all.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#240

Post by eli_gottlieb »

wredcoll wrote: post #227
fakedang wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Used to be a time when Congress made foreign policy. Oh, how fast they grow up... (sheds tear)

Honestly I'm not sure that was ever true, but it is funny.

Congress does have the exclusive power to declare war, but they've delegated that over the years with various authorizations for the use of military force or for police actions.
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