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US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

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Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#201

Post by XenophileJKO »

lolinder wrote: post #159
mangoman wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it requires the courts to agree - just that there's a burden or disadvantage and that it's in the "public interest" which seems like a pretty low bar to make up a story that sounds plausible. i think the idea that a trade deficit is a disadvantage is kinda brain dead, but it's plausible sounding enough to argue in court. throw in unequal tariff rates and it seems like an easier win than the IEEPA's emer…

"Aforesaid" is a very specific word that means that the "unequal impositions or discriminations" refers back to specific concepts previously referenced in the law. He can't (legally) just invent his own interpretations for what "unequal impositions" and "discriminations" entails, he has to convince a court that the specific actions he's retaliating against are covered by the "aforesaid" definitions. Here's the comple…

This still seems like a very low bar. If the country has ANY trade treaty with someone else that has trade advantage, than it would appear like that fits the letter of the law.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#202

Post by ojbyrne »

mangoman wrote: post #121

I'm not a lawyer or even close to it, but why wouldn't the trump admin use the tariff act of 1930? quote: "Whenever the President shall find as a fact that any foreign country places any burden or disadvantage upon the commerce of the United States by any of the unequal impositions or discriminations aforesaid, he shall, when he finds that the public interest will be served thereby, by proclamation specify and declar…

Also not a lawyer, but I think that there are legislated laws that superseded that, and since its legislated, you can't just go back and choose to enforce one law without the others.

In particular, Wikipedia tells me that the Reciprocal Tariff Act of 1934 had a part makes it harder to go back:

"Another key feature of the RTAA was that if Congress wanted to repeal a tariff reduction, it would take a two-thirds supermajority. That means that the tariff would have to be especially onerous, and the Congress would have to be especially protectionist. Once enacted, tariff reductions tended to stick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Tariff_Act#Reciproc...

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#203

Post by alabastervlog »

koolba wrote: post #155
ChrisLTD wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And these tariffs apply to the entire world for some reason?

The rationale for universal tariffs is it prevents rerouting goods to circumvent their intent.

God. The WTO penalties are gonna be epic (if much of this stuff ever actually goes into effect).

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#204

Post by llm_nerd »

mattnewton wrote: post #18
duxup wrote: post #9

The GOP controls the house and senate. Congress controls tariffs. If they followed the law congress could make the thing happen. But I don't think think independent thinking is allowed in the GOP, and it might force their hand if they had to actually put it to a vote ...

isn’t it easier to just say that the shadowy courts are the reason for all the problems and not actually ram the tariffs through? This seems like an off ramp is being extended. Who actually wants the tariffs?

>Who actually wants the tariffs?

Trump and Peter Navarro (along with his advisor "Ron Vara") really think tariffs are a windfall of government funding. They *really* want them.

Sneak in a massive regressive tax hike and just use bombast and cult-like rhetoric to pretend that if any of it hits consumers -- and 100% of it will -- it's really just evil Walmarts and other nefarious vendors who caused that.

The US federal balance sheet is a spectacular disaster, and Trump's Big Massive Deficit Bill is going to make it much worse. Americans need to settle in for the reality that higher taxes are going to be a near term reality.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#205

Post by SkipperCat »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #82
whoisthemachine wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A plurality of Americans voted for this government, for better or worse. The courts are one of the primary avenues for the minority to express their will, but they move slowly, although slightly faster than congress.

They voted for an R. To be fair it is hard to argue that they voted for this government when Trump maintained he had nothing to do with these plans outlined in Project 2025 all through the campaign and his approval rating has plummeted as people understand the scope of what has happened.

They voted against inflation. Most people don't care about politics, they only care about their pocketbook. And to your point, Trump hasn't solved inflation, so he's left with only his core supporters now.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#206

Post by forgotoldacc »

solardev wrote: post #196

Does it really matter what a court finds, anymore? We don't exactly live in law-abiding times.

A lot of people really seem to think this is the end of everything.

But there are two options here. One is that some other irrelevant and obscure law from 200 years ago is dug up and used to justify the tariffs and another long court battle begins. The other is that the ruling is simply ignored, just like many others, and half the country will cry that the courts are being ignored and justice will rain down soon, and the other half will say hell yeah, ignore those woke courts.

Every single judgement has gone this way for the past 9 years. I'm always amazed when people keep expecting different. It's like being surprised about the events in a 10 season long reality TV show. It's the same script everyday.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#207

Post by rswail »

sidvit wrote: post #24
duxup wrote: post #9

The GOP controls the house and senate. Congress controls tariffs. If they followed the law congress could make the thing happen. But I don't think think independent thinking is allowed in the GOP, and it might force their hand if they had to actually put it to a vote ...

The republicans leadership in the house has put mechanisms in place to prevent reps from challenging the tarrif laws. I don’t think it’d be a cake walk for them to do it through the legislative branch

[flagged]

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#209

Post by drewcoo »

crummy wrote: post #145
megaman821 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually I think saying both-sides is pretty lazy, but has any Congress in the last few decades done anything but delegate more of their authority to someone else? One party always complains about Executive Orders and interference when the other party is President, but then never curtails the power when they get a chance.

I remember Obama struggling pretty hard to get Obamacare through congress (and it ended up fairly watered down).

And it started as simply rebranded Romneycare (the 2006 MA state plan), so Rs should have found it palatable. And for the first half of Obama's first term, Ds could vote in anything they wanted but we still got a terrible version of a R health care plan.

FWIW, Nixoncare, totally blocked by Ted Kennedy because the dems didn't want Nixon's name on anything else that was nice (the Clean Air Act President kept claiming he'd end Johnson's war in Vietnam and then he had the gall to open relations with China!), was more like the single-payer health care Obama ran on but could not produce.

Also: Disclaimer, I'm absolutely not a conservative. I just don't like the liberal rewrites of actual history.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#210

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

klipt wrote: post #62
duxup wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Better hope this bill that house republicans have passed dies in the senate, since in effect it lets Trump override the courts: https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-hidden-provision-in-t...

That sounds like immediately forcing a constitutional crisis. It’s essentially a coup of two branches against the third.
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