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US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

bloomberg.com

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Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#71

Post by skulk »

0xy wrote: post #40
tnel77 wrote: post #12

Not saying this is good or bad, but this doesn’t seem surprising. Isn’t the point of our government structure to stop any one person from acting like a king. I’m surprised it took this long.

The Biden admin not only kept the first Trump admin's China tariffs in place but significantly expanded them under the same law. Was Biden acting like a king or does this analogy only go one way? https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-bi... https://web.archive.org/web/20250101032222/https://www.white... "[The Biden admin intends to use] executive authority"

Those tariffs were imposed under Trump's authority given to him by Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 which, in brief, allows the Executive to impose tariffs if a foreign nation's trade practices are affecting national security. Crucially, this determination is not made by the president, but rather the Department of Commerce.

Here is one such report from 2018 that was the impetus for the steel tariffs: https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/232-steel

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#72

Post by Spooky23 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #37
eru wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't they still have to deal with filibusters?

Codifying tariffs would also mean they probably can't change it every day to different numbers, no?

They can put a procedure in place to allow for some changes, just not under the ridiculous “state of emergency”.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#73

Post by MBCook »

ivape wrote: post #27
eru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US the president doesn't have the authority to start a war. Congress has the exclusive power to declare wars per the constitution.) (Obviously, in practice that's about as relevant congress having the sole authority over taxes, including tariffs.)

He only has to notify Congress within 48 hours, and if they don't approve it, those troops can stay deployed for up to 60 days. I'm just saying, he has already shown he's very interested in finding every loophole possible.

“Finding every loophole” implies he cares.

Whatever they say always appears to be post-hoc rationalization to explain what would otherwise be illegal actions.

They seem to have mostly given up on caring to find such things ahead of time.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#74

Post by duxup »

eru wrote: post #60
duxup wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger problem would be their own party members.

In what sense?

The GOP in congress has struggled, even last election cycle to gather enough votes to take action.

They ran through several rounds where they couldn't even pick a house majority leader among their own party.

The tariffs would be very difficult considering each of their local concerns.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#75

Post by Calavar »

MBCook wrote: post #48
0xy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Biden admin not only kept the first Trump admin's China tariffs in place but significantly expanded them under the same law. Was Biden acting like a king or does this analogy only go one way? https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-bi... https://web.archive.org/web/20250101032222/https://www.white... "[The Biden admin intends to use] executive authority"

But those weren’t under the emergency economics power law Trump is using this time right?

I believe you are correct. Biden used Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974. Trump has used the 1974 act, but he's also used the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, which is what the trade court just ruled on. My understanding is the Trump admin's strategy of putting a tariff on every country as an opening to negotiations doesn't fly under the 1974 act, which only allows placing tariffs on a country if there is evidence that it has broken fair trade practices in the US.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#77

Post by Spooky23 »

ivape wrote: post #13
nessbot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he gets to flaunt the law because he's vindictive? Not a system I wanna live in.

That's why I'm worried. To me it's obvious he was extremely upset with all those court cases against him, and now the courts and the Fed Chair are just straight ignoring him. So is Putin.

You have to force the issue. At the end of the day, congress will either stand by and allow the president to ignore the court, arrest judges, send his flying monkeys to intimidate them… or not.

If the president doesn’t back down, we’ve crossed the rubicon.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#78

Post by pwarner »

pwarner wrote: post #45
firesteelrain wrote: post #26

It’s not the end of this saga. Prior administrations, Republican and Democrat, have enacted tariffs without additional congressional approval.

There are other avenues, but I think those last tariffs were targeted. Another scenario where executive branch appears to have power, delegated from Congress, to enact tariffs https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/usad.htm

Also as someone else noted https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/other-areas/office-of-tech...

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#79

Post by 0xy »

Calavar wrote: post #75
MBCook wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those weren’t under the emergency economics power law Trump is using this time right?

I believe you are correct. Biden used Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974. Trump has used the 1974 act, but he's also used the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977, which is what the trade court just ruled on. My understanding is the Trump admin's strategy of putting a tariff on every country as an opening to negotiations doesn't fly under the 1974 act, which only allows placing tariffs on a country i…

Biden used executive authority on tariffs repeatedly, the same method Trump is using. And you're totally incorrect, Biden maintained the existing IEEPA tariffs on China that were imposed in Trump's first term.

Re: US Trade Court finds Trump tariffs illegal

#80

Post by MBCook »

whoisthemachine wrote: post #68
pwarner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress seems to want a king?

A plurality of Americans voted for this government, for better or worse. The courts are one of the primary avenues for the minority to express their will, but they move slowly, although slightly faster than congress.

That assumes a fair vote, which is arguable. Between Gerrymandering, purging voter roles, suits over who is allowed on the ballot, ID checks and associated issues I’m not sure it’s so clear cut.

He won under the conditions the election was performed under. That’s clear.

I’m not sure I could call those fair after years of attacks on people’s voting rights.

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