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AI: Accelerated Incompetence

slater.dev

201–210 of 287 posts

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#201
post #180

> It's still the wrong answer, because the question should have been, "How can I make this code thread-safe?" and whose answer is "Use System.Collections.Concurrent" and 1 line of code. I often found myself adding "use built-in features if they exists", just because because of this type of scenario. It unsettles me that some people feel okay always accepting AI code, even when it "works".

One of the easiest ways (for me) to spot AI code on a homework assignment has been to ask myself a simple question. Is this code something that would make sense for a human to write. It doesn't catch all cases - it doesn't catch even the majority of cases - but it does filter out people who just took the assignment and pasted it in to a prompt.

Mirroring the example provided in the article I once saw a 200 line class implementation for tridiagonal matrices in python - where a simple numpy command would suffice and perform an order of magnitude better.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#202

The author seems to have an inflated notion of what developing software is about. Most software doesn't require "perspicacity". Think about Civil Engineering. In a very few cases you are designing a Golden Gate Bridge. The vast majority of the time you are designing yet another rural bridge over a culvert. The first case requires deep investigation into all of the factors involving materials strength, soil dynamics,…

I don't disagree except that software is different to building bridges because once you build the bridge, it's a bridge and you're done.

Software engineering is like deciding after you built the bridge that it needs to now be able to open. Oh and the bridge is now busy and used heavily so we can't allow for any downtime while you rebuild the bridge to open.

And as much as we hope for standards so everything cookie cutter, there are idiosyncracies all over the place so no project is ever really the same.

These days I think of software more like writing fiction than engineering

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#203
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work in a token space whose metrical structure is given by proxies for concepts. So at a point in this space I can "walk towards" points which cluster around the token "dog". This is a weak model of some features of concepts, eg., association: "dog" is associated with "cat", etc. But it, e.g., does not model composition, nor intension, nor the role of the term in counterfactuals. (See my comment elsewhere in thi…

As always with definitive assertions regarding LLMs incapacities, i would be more convinced if one could demonstrate those assertions with an illustrative example, on a real LLM. So far, the abilities of LLM to manipulate concepts, in practice, has been indistinguishable in practice from "true" human-level concept manipulation. And not just for scientific, "narrow" fields.

The problem with mental capacities, is that they are not measured by tests. We have no valid and reliable way of determining them. Hence why "metrics psychology" is a pseudoscience.

If I give a child a physics exam, and they score 100% it could either be because they're genuinely a genius (possessing all relevant capabilities and knowledge), or because they cheated. Suppose we dont know how they're cheating, but they are. Now, how would you find out? Certainly not by feeding more physics exams, at least, its easy enough to suppose they can cheat on those.

The issue here is that the LLM has compressed basically everything written in human history, and the question before us is "to what degree is a 'complex search' operation expressing a genuine capability, vs. cheating?"

And there is no general methodological answer to that question. I cannot give you a "test", not least because I'm required to give you it in token-in--token-out form (ie., written) and this dramatically narrows the scope of capability testing methods.

Eg., I could ask the cheating child to come to a physics lab and perform an experiment -- but I can ask no such thing from an LLM. One thing we could do with an LLM is have a physics-ignorant-person act as an intermediary with the LLM, and see if they, with the LLM, can find the charge on the electron in a physics lab. That's highly likely to fail with current LLMs, in my view -- because much of the illusion of their capability lies in the expertise of the prompter.

> has been indistinguishable in practice from "true" human-level concept manipulation

This claim indicates you're begging the question. We do not use the written output of animal's mental capabilities to establish their existence -- that would be a gross pseudoscience; so to say that LLMs are indistinguishable from anything relevant indicates you're not aware of what the claim of "human-level concept manipulation" even amounts to. It has nothing to do with emitting tokens.

When designing a test to see if an animal possesses a relevant concept, can apply it to a relevant situation, can compose it with other concepts, and so on -- we would never look to linguistic competence, which even in humans, is an unreliable proxy: hence the need for decades of education and the high fallibility of exams.

Rather if I were assessing "does this person understanding 'Dog'?" I would be looking for contextual competence in application of the concept in a very broad role in reasoning processes: identification in the environment, counterfactual reasoning, composition with other known concepts in complex reasoning processes, and the like.

All LLMs do is emit text as-if they have these capacities, which makes a general solution to exposing their lack of them, basically methodologically impossible. Training LLMs is an anti-inductive process: the more tests we provide, the more they are trained on them, so the tests become useless.

Consider the following challenge: there are two glass panels, one is a window; and the other is a very high def TV showing a video game simulation of the world outside the window. You are fixed at a distance of 20 meters from the TV, and can only test each glass pane by taking a photograph of it, and studying the photograph. Can you tell which window is the outside? In general, no.

This is the grossly pseudoscientific experimental restriction people who hype LLMs impose: the only tests are tokens-in, tokens-out -- "photographs taken at a distance". If you were about to be throw against one of these glass panels, which would you choose?

If an LLM was, based on token in/out analysis alone, put in charge of a power plant: would you live near by?

It matters if these capabilities exist, because if real, the system will behave as expected according to capabilities. If its cheating, when you're thrown against the wrong window, you fall out.

LLMs are in practice, incredibly fragile systems, whose apparent capabilities quickly disappear when the kinds of apparent reasoning they need to engage in are poorly represetned in their training data.

Consider one way of measuring the capability to imagine that isnt token/token: energy use and time-to-compute:

Here, we can say for certain that LLMs do not engaged in counterfactual reasoning. Eg., we can give a series of prompts (p1, p2, p3...) which require increasing complexity of the imagined scenario, eg., exponentially more diverse stipulations, and we do not find O(answering) to follow O(p-complexity-increase). Rather the search strategy is always the same for single-shot prompt: so no trace thru an LLM involves simulation. We can just get "mildly above linear" (apparent) reasoning complexity with chain-of-thought, but this likewise does not follow the target O().

The kinds of time-to-compute we observe from LLM systems are entirely consistent with a "search and synthesis" over token-space algorithm, that only appears to simulate if the search space contains prior exemplars of simulation. There is no genuine capability

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#204
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth mentioning that tools have stable output. An LLM is not a tool in that sense – it’s not reproducible. Changing the model, retraining, input phrasing etc can change dramatically the output. The best tools are transparent. They are efficient, fast and reliable, yes, but they’re also honest about what they do! You can do everything manually if you want, no magic, no hidden internal state, and with internal pa…

> An LLM is not a tool in that sense – it’s not reproducible. LLMs are perfectly reproducible. Almost all public services providing them are not. The fact that changing the model changes the output doesn't make it not reproducible, in the same way reproducible software packages depend on a set version of the compiler. But you can run a local model with zero temperature, set starting conditions and you'll get the same…

I know it’s technically reproducible under the right conditions, and sure it might help in some cases. But it matters little in practice – the issue is that it’s unstable relative to unrelated parameters you often have good reason to change, often uninitentionally. For instance, you can and will get vastly different output based on usual non-semantic variations in language. I’m not a logician, but this is probably even a necessity given the ginormous output space LLMs operate on.

My point is that it’s not a tool, because good tools reliably work the same way. If, for instance, a gun clicks when it’s supposed to fire, we would say that it malfunctioned. Or it fires when the safety is on. We can define what should happen, and if something else happens, there is a fault.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#205

I think it's more of an issue where the term "engineering" means something very different in the software world than it does in the rest of the world but I find it a bit difficult to take any such article seriously when it makes statements like: "LLMs can't replace human engineering." as a response to "If you're a skilled, experienced engineer and you fear that AI will make you unemployable, adopt a more nuanced view…

I really don't want to have that argument yet again. However I hold an engineering degree and a computer science degree. Software engineering is very much engineering. Engineering is the art of tradeoffs and balance. Using a lighter weight, but more expensive steel in a structure to place less load on the foundation is an example of a tradeoff in Structural engineering.

Once you get beyond the most simple code you are practicing tradeoff and balance. You can use a simple, memory intensive algorithm, but you need to understand if you have the space to use it. You might be able to develop software in 1/2 the time if you take a basic approach, but it won't scale.

I don't know if you develop software or not. Regardless think more deeply about what is involved in engineering.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with people "who have spent time in machine learning or reinforcement learning" is that they've spent no time, literally none, understanding what a concept is. There is no such thing as a higher dimensional concept, nor can they be projected into a weight space, because they aren't quantities. The concept, say, "Dog" composes with the concept, "Happy" to form "Happy Dog". The extension(Dog) is all possibl…

I'm not sure why "The contents of `I` is nowhere modelled by "projection" because this does not model composition, and is not relevantly discrete and bounded by logical connectives." In practical terms, what do you think the LLM output cannot contain right now? Because the way I read it now is "LLM can't speculate". But that's trivial to disprove by asking for that happy dog on Mars speculation you have as an example…

LLMs are just a token->token mapping. They can output any set of tokens for any set of input tokens. So there is no output which isn't in the domain or codomain.

The issue is why one (prompt, answer) pair is given. If the answer is given as a "reasoning process" over salient parts of the prompt, that, e.g., involves imagining/simulation as expected, then for {(prompt', answer')} of similar imaginings we will get reliable mappings. If its cheating, then we wont.

We can, I think, say for certain that the system is not engaged in counterfactual reasoning. Eg., we can give a series of prompts (p1, p2, p3...) which require increasing complexity of the imagined scenario, and we do not find O(answering) to follow O(p-complexity-increase). Rather the search strategy is always the same, and we can just get "mildly above linear" (pseudo-)reasoning complexity with chain-of-thought.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#207
post #41

"[AI] is not capable of working at a conceptual level". I wonder where did author got that feeling. What recent LLMs proved time and time again is that they are definitely able to work at conceptual level (by correctly translating concepts from one language to another depending on the context for example). Saying it doesn't "understand" the concepts as humans do is a different thing. It wouldn't "understand" pain, be…

> But humans constantly talk about thing they've never personally experienced On the extreme, we can talk about things like Aphantasia, Synesthesia and colour blindness and understand the concepts even if we never experienced them.

we understand the concept, but do we really intuitively understand it ? It happens very often that you "know" something, but then you experience it, and realize you never really understood it before.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#208
post #94

Remember when 3d printing was going to replace all manufacturing? Anybody? AI is closer to this sentiment than it is to the singularity.

It might not lead to singularity but for people who work in academia, in terms of setting and marking assignments and lecture notes, for good or bad AI has had an enormous impact. You might argue that LLMs have simply exposed some systematic defects instead of improving anything, but the impact is there. Dozens of lecturing workflows that were pretty standard 2 years ago are no longer viable. This includes the entire…

> This includes the entirety of online and remote education

I don't get this. Either you do graded home assignments which the person takes without any examiner, which you could always cheat on, or you do live exams and then people can't rely on AI . LLMs make it easier to cheat, but it's not a categorical difference.

I feel like my experience of university (90% of the classes had in-person exams, some had home projects for a portion of the final marks) is fundamentally different from what other people experienced and this is very confusing for me.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#209

Remember when 3d printing was going to replace all manufacturing? Anybody? AI is closer to this sentiment than it is to the singularity.

Great analogy. 3d printing is awesome and incredibly useful tech. Truly world changing. But injection molding is here to stay.

Though we did figure out how to do injection molding with a 3d printer. In a printed mold.

Re: AI: Accelerated Incompetence

#210
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big problem I keep facing when reviewing junior engineers code is not the code quality itself but the direction the solution went into, I'm not sure if LLM models are capable of replying to you with a question of why you want to do it that way(yes like the famous stackoverflow answers).

You can ask the why, but if it provides the wrong approach, just ask to make it what you want it to be. What is wrong with iteration? I frequently have LLM write proposal.MD first and then iterate on that, then have the full solution, iterate on that. It will be interesting to see if it does the proposal like I had in mind and many times it uses tech or ideas that I didn't know about myself, so I am constantly learni…

I might have not been clear in my original reply, I don't have this problem when using an LLM myself, I sometimes notice this when I review code by new joiners that was written with the help of an LLM, the code quality is usually ok unless I want to be pedantic, but sometimes the agent helper make new comers dig themselves deeper in the wrong approach while if they asked a human coworker they would probably have noticed that the solution is going the wrong way from the start, which touches on what the original article is about, I don't know if that is incompetence acceleration, but if used wrong or maybe not in a clear directed way, it can produce something that works but has monstrous unneeded complexity.
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