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How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

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Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#121

Post by kqr »

IAmBroom wrote: post #71
Neywiny wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an ornithologist but I think birds integrate some onboard magnetic compass sensors. So, it would be interesting if they can pick up the magnetic part of an electromagnetic wave of the radio. Seems very low likelihood but would be cool. Edit to add https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230828130356.h... . What frequency were you at? Seems they may actually be listening.

"Picking up" and "discerning useful data" are very different. I'm not even talking about "deciphering". Even knowing that energy in a certain bandwidth means planes about to leave seems a large jump - and a radio tuned to a station is likely an order of magnitude more stringent than an animal's sensory abilities.

Indeed. Not to mention that the frequency is probably used for many other types of communication than announcing the use of that specific taxiway.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#122

Post by kqr »

xg15 wrote: post #105

I read somewhere that migrating birds often use human infrastructure - roads, railways, power lines, etc - as landmarks or even "route markers" for their migrations. A bit of a shower thought, but I think you can probably generalize that idea: Most birds spend a significant part of their life in the air, looking down onto human-designed landscapes. The aerial view of our cities is probably as familiar to them as our…

> Most birds spend a significant part of their life in the air, looking down onto human-designed landscapes. The aerial view of our cities is probably as familiar to them as our neighborhood streets are to us.

The opening few chapters of Perdido Street Station does a great job of conveying this difference.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#123

Post by JSR_FDED »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #50

I once wrote a personal’s ad in SQL on Craigslist, back when they had that section. A DBA replied and asked if I wanted hawking. She had a Cooper’s hawk. I met her at a commercial park in a Saturday morning. She was driving a Honda CRV, the hawk was in the front passenger seat, and I hopped into the back seat. She started driving and spotted some crows. The hawk saw them as well. Wearing a “don’t kill me either your…

I feel like I’ve just taken someone else’s medicine.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#124

Post by hoseja »

vikingerik wrote: post #32
throwanem wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see pigeons and sparrows dodge cars by inches, too. For that matter I do the same myself! Sparrows hawk insects out of the air, and I believe starlings also. Predicting motion would need to be second nature, I think. Like skillfully catching a ball, but much more so and between your teeth...

Well, there is survivor bias there, of course; you don't see the ones that didn't learn to dodge...

I saw one lodged in the front grill of an SUV just the other day. Grisly.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#126

Post by crote »

rzzzt wrote: post #84
dmd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search for "flicker fusion rate" to learn a lot more about this.

Mine is 42 Hz according to a recent examination. Are high refresh rate monitors are wasted on this pair of eyes?

No. Flicker fusion only happens when the same image is shown at the same position.

Something like a moving mouse cursor shows the same image at different positions. As an experiment, create a fullscreen image with the opposite color of your mouse cursor. Look at a fixed spot of this image, then rapidly move your mouse cursor across it. Rather than a moving image, you will see a bunch of copies of the cursor at fixed positions.

Similarly, track a rapidly moving cursor with your eyes. It will appear blurry, even though your eyes have no trouble sharply seeing an object moving at that speed in the natural world.

You can also try flashing an image for a very short amount of time. You'll be able to see and remember its content, even when it is being displayed for a period far shorter than flicker fusion would suggest you'd be able to see.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#127

Post by ashoeafoot »

krisoft wrote: post #6

I have a similar story. I was taxiing a Cessna 152 at LHBS. It is a big grassy field. On that day there were a large flock of black birds sitting on the grass. I made the usual radio call to announce that I'm leaving the runway and taxiing to the tie-downs when the birds flitted away just between my airplane's nose and my destination. The birds outside of that "road" by roughly a wingspan distance remained on the gro…

They can see em fields, might aswell have "seen" the radio.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#128

Post by ashoeafoot »

rzzzt wrote: post #84
dmd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search for "flicker fusion rate" to learn a lot more about this.

Mine is 42 Hz according to a recent examination. Are high refresh rate monitors are wasted on this pair of eyes?

Dr Nyquist recommends double +1

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#129

Post by stanmancan »

hnlmorg wrote: post #58
stanmancan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We call that evolution

Nit pick, but it’s natural selection The cars aren’t evolving the birds, but they are selecting the fittest.

It’s both, no? The fittest birds survive so those traits get passed down to future generations.

Re: How a hawk learned to use traffic signals to hunt more successfully

#130

Post by Neywiny »

krisoft wrote: post #114
Neywiny wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an ornithologist but I think birds integrate some onboard magnetic compass sensors. So, it would be interesting if they can pick up the magnetic part of an electromagnetic wave of the radio. Seems very low likelihood but would be cool. Edit to add https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/08/230828130356.h... . What frequency were you at? Seems they may actually be listening.

Probably 124.510 Mhz. That is the current airport frequency there and it is unlikely to have changed since. Very cool article. But it sounds like that would be out of the likely range?

That's close enough to the cutoff that I could see it being in range maybe for the right species or even a slight mutation/evolution. Even if all they know is "I know North but a little less definitively than usual", that could be enough.
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