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Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

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Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#361

Post by seethishat »

math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

Some US universities do this remotely via proctoring software. They require pencil and paper to be used with a laptop that has a camera. Some do mirror scans, room scans, hand scans, etc. The Georgia Tech OMS CS program used to do this for the math proofs course and algorithms (leet code). It was effective and scalable. However, the proctoring seems overly Orwellian, but I can understand the need due to cheating as well as maintaining high standards for accreditation.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#362

Post by throwaway290 »

Aurornis wrote: post #189
Aerroon wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time though: if AI based cheating is so effective then is college itself useful?

If calculators are so good at math, is learning math itself useful? It’s the same old story with a new set of technology.

> If calculators are so good at math, is learning math itself useful?

What's your answer? Surely it was proven to be "not useful"? I don't think I ever met a person who benefitted from knowing math now that everyone has a calculator in pocket. Other than maybe playing some games where if you do calculation on the fly you win

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#363

Post by orwin »

stevage wrote: post #305
Brybry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instructors and professors are required to be subject matter experts but many are not required to have a teaching certification or education-related degree. So they know what students should be taught but I don't know that they necessarily know how any better than the administrators. I've always found it weird that you need teaching certification to teach basic concepts to kindergartners but not to teach calculus to…

This is very different in France. Studying to be a teacher at university level is a big deal.

Since the reform on University administration circa 2011, a big push was done towards 'evaluation continue' (basically regular tests), which now last until your third year in some Uni, to make public universities more like private schools, and against 'partiels' (two big batteries of standardized tests in person, with thousands in the same area, with only pen and papers, one early January, second in may, every year, over a week).

That push was accelerated because of COVID, but with the 'AI homework', it gave teachers a possibility to argue against that move and the trend seemed stopped last year (I don't now yet if it has reverted). In any case, I hope this AI trend will give more freedom to teachers, and maybe new ways of teaching.

And I'm not a big Llm fan in general, but in my country, in superior education, it seems good overall.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#364

Post by baq »

LunaSea wrote: post #317
baq wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

real life first, math second. taking tests is a skill that must be learned, especially now with AI faking quite literally everything that can be shown on a screen. (unless your students are learning purely for the joy of it and not for having a chance to get hired anywhere.)

> taking tests is a skill that must be learned Why? It's a useless skill that you will literally never have to use after your schooling.

and job interviews.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#365

Post by orwin »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #297
hoseja wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody knows "how" things should be taught. Pedagogy is utter disaster.

I am pretty sure that early childhood education (until fifth grade) is a very active area of research in all highly developed nations. Almost, by definition, it you want to (a) become or (b) stay a highly developed nation, you need to have a high quality public education system. My mother was a first grade teacher for 30+ years. In her school system, first grade is the year that students learn to read. Each year, she…

A lot of research is made. Are the discoveries applied properly? Not always.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#366

Post by xrtatee »

enceladus06 wrote: post #252

LLMs is is here to stay and will change learning for the better (we will be full-scale disrupted 3-5yr from now in EDU), it is a self-guided tutor like never before and 100% Amazing, except for when it hallucinates. I use it [Copilot / GPT / Khanmingo] all the time to figure out new tools and prototype workflows, check code for errors, and learn new stuff including those classes at universities which cost way too muc…

Exactly. I can remember 2-3 teachers in my life that were good but most were absolutely terrible.

I even remember taking a Philosophy of AI class in 1999, something that should have been as interesting and intellectual stimulating to any thinking student, and the professor managed to clear the lecture hall from 300 to 50 before I stopped going too with his constant self-aggrandizing bullshit.

I had a history teacher in high school that didn't try to hide he was a teacher so he could travel in the summer and then made a large part of the class about his former and upcoming travels.

Most weren't this bad but they just sucked at explaining concepts and ideas.

The whole education system should obviously be rebuilt from the ground up but it will be decades before we bother with this. Someone above mentioned the Roman's teaching wrestling to students. We are those Romans and we are just going to keep teaching wrestling. I learned to wrestle, my father learned to wrestle so my kids are going to learn to wrestle because that is what defines an educated person!

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#367

Post by TrackerFF »

andoando wrote: post #98

Perhaps we should reconsider the purpose of teaching. If one does not want to learn, why are we teaching them?

For the vast majority that enroll higher education: Because they want a job. They need a job.

The degree is the key that unlocks the door to a job. Not the knowledge itself, but the actual physical diploma.

And it REALLY, REALLY doesn't help that there are so many jobs out there that could be done just fine with a HS diploma. But because reasons, you now need a college degree for that job.

The problem isn't new. For decades people have bought fake degrees, hired people to do their work, even hired people the impersonate themselves.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#368

Post by aaplok »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #319
aaplok wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. Those I ask are unanimously horrified that this is the choice they are given. They are devastated that the degree for which they are working hard is becoming worthless yet they all assert they don't want exams back. Many of them are neurodivergent who do miserably in exam conditions and in contrast excel in open tasks that allow them to explore, so my sample is biased but…

>Many of them are neurodivergent if "many" are "divergent" then... are they really divergent? or are they the new typical?

Many of the students I talk to. I don't claim they form a representative sample of the student cohort, on the contrary. I guess that the typical student is typical but I have not gone to check that.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#369

Post by CoastalCoder »

vkou wrote: post #275
AStonesThrow wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused by your pronouns and other plot holes. You wanted to "ace the class", which is an "A" on your final report card? But your crush's exam tanked your grade? You passed the class anyway, right? Did you swap Scantrons, then, and your crush sat next to you, writing answers on the dgfitz forms? She wouldn't pass without an "A" on the exams, so her running point total was circling the drain, and your effort gav…

> Were the 3 tests administered on 3 separate occasions, so nobody caught you repeatedly cheating the same way? I imagine that it would be utterly trivial for two people to nearly-undetectably cheat in this way, by both of them simply writing the other person's name on their exam.

My impression was that in high school, girls and boys had pretty distinct handwriting.

Not sure if that impression is accurate though, or if it's true of mathematical writing.

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