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The Two Week Problem

openshift.redhat.com

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Re: The Two Week Problem

#11
post #7

It was hard for me to get past the 'two week' problem being the opening argument for this. It has never taken me 2 weeks to get any machine configured and ready to go. I agree with cmwalsh in that this drastically weakens the overall message. The only reason I continued past the 2nd paragraph is because this was linked from HN. My initial response would normally be "Who really takes 2 weeks to configure a machine??"…

You never worked with a service oriented environment, right? When you need to override dozens of services your build/local instance depends on, it could easily take a couple of weeks, especially for fresh graduates who used to "./configure && make && sudo make".

Re: The Two Week Problem

#12
Maybe it's just me but I find the two week problem to be less about configuring my dev environment. Give me a sufficiently unix like box hg and I'm configured in less than 5 minutes.

It's more about getting up to speed the system I'm developing on and I have difficulty seeing how that can be properly abstracted out into a general solution.

Oh and of course the obligatory "You can have my emacs running evil-mode when you pry it from my cold dead hands".

Re: The Two Week Problem

#14
post #10

I think this is probably a problem more with new developers vs seasoned developers. I've noticed that configurations woes plague people who haven't got to a point where they have already configured their environments to their liking tens of times. i can get a machine configured for development use in a few hours and be productive the next day. Why? Because I have a repo of all my latest dotfiles including my vim plug…

If you're an experienced developer, but the project you join requires a different toolset and/or set of executables than a previous one, then it'll take you a good while to get up to speed on it.

E.g. you've got Visual Studio the way you like it, but the new project has different code organization and code conventions and requires a different version of C++. You were developing for Android on Juno and now you're using GWT on Indigo. The libraries aren't checked in, and also Bob built them himself because he wanted to patch the logging library. The build system depends on ActiveState Python 2.5, it breaks in subtle ways if you use another distribution or version, but no one can tell you because they just all happen to have installed their copy when that was the latest.

[Remembered another one: we're using a library, but it's broken, and the workaround involves setting up absolute paths to a number of files in your user directory, and no one has a complete set of the necessary because we're all working on a different subset than you.]

A repo with dotfiles ain't gonna help you with any of that. I suspect that these scenarios describe the vast majority of development environments by quantity. It's a luxury to have your build environment be describable by a few text files whose location are known rather than bundled up in binaries, Windows Registry entries, and cargo-culted tribal knowledge. Yes, that's a horrible state of affairs, but to point the finger at "new developers" is to miss the point.

Re: The Two Week Problem

#15
I've wondered about the "two week problem" in the context of large open source projects. It would be great if a developer could spin up, say, a temporary VPS for Chromium development, the toolchain all set up and source ready to modify. I can't be the only one with a pet bug that must be trivial to fix, but the overhead of setting up a whole new toolchain to do so is just not worth it.

Re: The Two Week Problem

#16
The problem is actually that most software projects are too complicated to setup. This is a kind of technical debt created by bad developers who think their job only involves coding, not maintaining the entire lifecycle of code. I bet these shops also have hard to reproduce builds and deploys that require dozens of human steps.

If your new dev process isn't some close variation of:

1) Install IDE 2) Checkout code from repo 3) Run dev environment setup script 4) Open project in IDE

then you're doing it wrong.

Re: The Two Week Problem

#17
post #14
post #10

I think this is probably a problem more with new developers vs seasoned developers. I've noticed that configurations woes plague people who haven't got to a point where they have already configured their environments to their liking tens of times. i can get a machine configured for development use in a few hours and be productive the next day. Why? Because I have a repo of all my latest dotfiles including my vim plug…

If you're an experienced developer, but the project you join requires a different toolset and/or set of executables than a previous one, then it'll take you a good while to get up to speed on it. E.g. you've got Visual Studio the way you like it, but the new project has different code organization and code conventions and requires a different version of C++. You were developing for Android on Juno and now you're usin…

Point the finger at the devs who created the system. Batch files and bash scripts go a long way.

Re: The Two Week Problem

#18

The problem is actually that most software projects are too complicated to setup. This is a kind of technical debt created by bad developers who think their job only involves coding, not maintaining the entire lifecycle of code. I bet these shops also have hard to reproduce builds and deploys that require dozens of human steps. If your new dev process isn't some close variation of: 1) Install IDE 2) Checkout code fro…

Absolutely. Development projects should have a repeatable, automated-where-it-makes-sense setup.

A few things I do at my company to make sure:

* give developers a new machine every 12-18 mos (depends on Apple refresh cycles). Forces everyone to install it fresh, and fix any dependency/install bugs to be fixed

* all new dev hires must have it running and have deployed a change on their first day.

* encourage graphic designers, QA, and other folk to get it running locally for testing and the like. The install script and docs must be super clear so it allows them to install it with minimal hassle

I was using Vagrant for this, but ultimately it didn't provide enough value to outweigh the overhead and hassle. A shame, but I think they are on the right track with their approach. Just needs a lot more polish in my opinion.

Re: The Two Week Problem

#19
Misko Hevery (author of AngularJS) wrote a good blog post about how if you pair with a new hire for a day, you can bring them up to speed almost instantly. I tried it and it works - my new hires were committing real fixes by the end of day one.

http://misko.hevery.com/2009/06/12/what-pair-programing-is-n...

An additional benefit is that the experienced and more senior developer will also have to endure the pain of setting up, and the undocumented parts, and may even fix them.

However, if I was looking for a technical fix, I think using Vagrant is far better than anything cloudy. The cloud is a tradeoff - you get the benefits of virtualization, if you accept the downsides of it being all remote. The OP's solution doesn't even allow you to choose your editor! Vagrant gives you all the upside and none of the downside.

Re: The Two Week Problem

#20
post #7

It was hard for me to get past the 'two week' problem being the opening argument for this. It has never taken me 2 weeks to get any machine configured and ready to go. I agree with cmwalsh in that this drastically weakens the overall message. The only reason I continued past the 2nd paragraph is because this was linked from HN. My initial response would normally be "Who really takes 2 weeks to configure a machine??"…

It's taken me more than two weeks in some cases. Because after a week of thrashing, a new hire will quite rightly get panicky if they aren't yet writing code. So one may just give up and accept a machine in a 'limping' state.

When I was younger and stupider, I accepted a 'limping' dev box for months at a particular new job, because everything was undocumented and I was afraid to ask for help.

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