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Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

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Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#91

Post by math_dandy »

sien wrote: post #77
math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

In Australia Universities that have remote study have places where people can do proctored exams in large cities. The course is done remotely but the exam, which is often 50%+ of the final grade, is done in a place that has proctored exams as a service. Can't this be done in the US as well ?

Proctoring services done well could be valuable, but it’s smaller rural and remote communities that would benefit most. Maybe these services could be offered by local schools, libraries, etc.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#92

Post by jay_kyburz »

aaplok wrote: post #61
math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

> Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. Those I ask are unanimously horrified that this is the choice they are given. They are devastated that the degree for which they are working hard is becoming worthless yet they all assert they don't want exams back. Many of them are neurodivergent who do miserably in exam conditions and in contrast excel in open tasks that allow them to explore, so my sample is biased but…

I think having one huge exam at the end is the problem. An exam and assessment every week would be best.

Less stress at the end of the term, and the student can't leave everything to the last minute, they need to do a little work every week.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#93

Post by sien »

fn-mote wrote: post #83
sien wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia Universities that have remote study have places where people can do proctored exams in large cities. The course is done remotely but the exam, which is often 50%+ of the final grade, is done in a place that has proctored exams as a service. Can't this be done in the US as well ?

Variations in this system are in active use in the US as well. Do you feel it is effective? It seems to me that there is a massive asymmetry in the war here: proctoring services have tiny incentives to catch cheaters. Cheaters have massive incentives to cheat. I expect the system will only catch a small fraction of the cheating that occurs.

From what I've seen it works.

There is definitely a war between cheaters and people catching them. But a lot of people can't be bothered and if learning the material can be made easier than cheating then it will work.

You can imagine proctoring halls of the future being Faraday cages with a camera watching people do their test.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#94

Post by jay_kyburz »

fn-mote wrote: post #87
lolinder wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the best professors I had either did not grade homework or weighted it very small and often on a did-you-do-it-at-all basis and did not grade attendance at all. They provided lectures and assignments as a means to learn the material and then graded you based on your performance in proctored exams taken either in class or at the university testing center. For most subjects at the university level graded homewor…

> rather than giving them the flexibility they deserve as grown adults I have had so many very frustrating conversations with full grown adults in charge of teaching CS. I have no faith at all that students would be able to choose an appropriate method of study. My issue with the instruction is the very narrow belief in the importance of certain measurable skills. VERY narrow. I won’t go into details, for my own sani…

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but just like junior employees, I think university students should clock in at 9am and finish working at 5pm.

I think they would really benefit learning how to work a full day and develop some work life balance.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#95

Post by bigfatkitten »

sien wrote: post #77
math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

In Australia Universities that have remote study have places where people can do proctored exams in large cities. The course is done remotely but the exam, which is often 50%+ of the final grade, is done in a place that has proctored exams as a service. Can't this be done in the US as well ?

Not even just large cities. Decent sized towns have them too, usually with local high school teachers or the like acting as proctors.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#96

Post by ghaff »

barry-cotter wrote: post #88
fn-mote wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Variations in this system are in active use in the US as well. Do you feel it is effective? It seems to me that there is a massive asymmetry in the war here: proctoring services have tiny incentives to catch cheaters. Cheaters have massive incentives to cheat. I expect the system will only catch a small fraction of the cheating that occurs.

> proctoring services have tiny incentives to catch cheaters. Cheaters have massive incentives to cheat. If they don’t catch them they don’t have a business model. They have one job. The University of London, Open University and British Council all have 50+ years experience on proctoring university exams for distance learning students and it’s not like Thomson Prometric haven’t thought about how to do it either, even…

And I daresay most of the corporate certs from companies like Microsoft and Red Hat are probably have pretty well-proctored exams too. To what degree their processes are applicable to a University environment I don't know.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#97

Post by jay_kyburz »

pona-a wrote: post #45
__loam wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suggest we measure whether the students have actually learned the stuff then?

In person, pen and paper exams? They are closer to how most certifications are conducted.

Also, They don't need to be literally pen and paper exams, they just need to be run on computers without network connectivity, administered by the university.

You could sit down at a workstation with all the tools you might need to test your skills. :)

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#99

Post by raincole »

blitzar wrote: post #32

How did we solve this when calculators came along and ruined peoples ability to do mental arithmetic and use slide rulers?

We banned it.

Yes, that's what we did and are still doing. Most grade schools don't allow calculators on basic arithmetic classes. Colleges don't integrate WolframAlpha into Calculus 101 exams. etc.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#100

Post by andoando »

nkrisc wrote: post #13

If the trend continues, it seems like most college degrees will be completely worthless. If students using AI to cheat on homework are graduating with a degree, then it has lost all value as a certificate that the holder has completed some minimum level of education and learning. Institutions that award such degrees will be no different than degree mills of the past. I’m just grateful my college degree has the year 2…

Good, colleges have staryed far from their purpose
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