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Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

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Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#31

Post by smallnix »

lolinder wrote: post #18

My wife quit Duolingo the week before this announcement after years of watching Duolingo prioritize attention manipulation over learning. She had a nearly 6-year streak and was on the paid version at the time, but realized that it wasn't actually helping her learn any more: she'd at some point begun maintaining a streak just for the sake of maintaining a streak. The best documentation for Duolingo's decline is this a…

I think it's about expectations, for me it's my favorite mobile game with a minor learning side effect.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#32

Post by kbelder »

adocomplete wrote: post #14
90s_dev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that a strong thread of the hacker community, including HN and the guys who wrote GNU and linux, are extremely cheap . Like, you'd rather write a product clone yourself than pay $15/month for the official product. Why is this? What's with the inherent stinginess?

It's not stinginess, it's value. If an LLM can teach me a language, why wouldn't I go straight to the source and use GPT or Claude and customize it to my exact needs. I feel like so many AI products these days won't be around a few years from now once more people find out that all their doing is providing a slightly different UI to what you can get directly from OAI, Anthropic, Google for cheaper and better and more…

Plus, being stingy even if you have money benefits those who don't have money. It's why I buy the $0.50 macaroni and cheese instead of the $1.69 version. I don't really care; either would be fine. But I don't want companies to succeed in charging more. I want them to desperately need to cut their selling price in order to succeed.

People buying expensive products (assuming they aren't truly better) are helping screw over poor people. Just slightly.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#33

Post by adocomplete »

whyowhy3484939 wrote: post #20
adocomplete wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not stinginess, it's value. If an LLM can teach me a language, why wouldn't I go straight to the source and use GPT or Claude and customize it to my exact needs. I feel like so many AI products these days won't be around a few years from now once more people find out that all their doing is providing a slightly different UI to what you can get directly from OAI, Anthropic, Google for cheaper and better and more…

LLMs cannot "teach you a language". They make for cool demos to show off. They can perhaps be a building block of a proper language learning experience. Then again, the only languages I actually learned - besides my mother tongue - to the point of being able to do things were English and Latin and both were very much acquired offline. I have plenty of experience with language learning apps and I'm not convinced tech…

I think the best way to learn a language is offline through actual human interaction.

I've used Duolingo in the past (and other apps) and quickly lost interest, it's a fun app, but I feel like you don't learn from it. If I had to learn a new language today, I'm confident I could make good progress with GPT or Gemini, but tailoring it to how I learn.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#34

Post by lazide »

retnuhllort wrote: post #7

Can someone explain the point of this article? How does any of this matter unless 1. customers stop using this app or 2. all employees quit. Neither one is happening, especially the one where customers leave, because customers are not using this app as a form of charity to fund salaries of contractors.

A lot of customers left.

And, typically CEO’s say things like this to try to scare/get leverage on employees.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#35

Post by [deleted] »

whyowhy3484939 wrote: post #20
adocomplete wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not stinginess, it's value. If an LLM can teach me a language, why wouldn't I go straight to the source and use GPT or Claude and customize it to my exact needs. I feel like so many AI products these days won't be around a few years from now once more people find out that all their doing is providing a slightly different UI to what you can get directly from OAI, Anthropic, Google for cheaper and better and more…

LLMs cannot "teach you a language". They make for cool demos to show off. They can perhaps be a building block of a proper language learning experience. Then again, the only languages I actually learned - besides my mother tongue - to the point of being able to do things were English and Latin and both were very much acquired offline. I have plenty of experience with language learning apps and I'm not convinced tech…

[deleted]

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#36

Post by adocomplete »

lazide wrote: post #27
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you enjoy building things why not do it yourself while also saving money? My dad likes doing oil changes himself which I'd never do, but it doesn't occur to me to insult and question why a person has different values than I do.

Well, or as many DIY’ers have figured out - ‘why would I buy that for $500 when I can spend $1500 and 3 weeks making it myself?’

Depends on if you learn something while making yourself. The lesson itself could be worth 10x the monetary spend (in a positive and negative way).

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#38

Post by raincole »

90s_dev wrote: post #8
godzillabrennus wrote: post #3

Their comments cemented to me that they have no long term value. If the ceo of Duolingo thinks AI will teach me a language then I’ll use a low cost LLM to get there without Duolingo.

I've noticed that a strong thread of the hacker community, including HN and the guys who wrote GNU and linux, are extremely cheap . Like, you'd rather write a product clone yourself than pay $15/month for the official product. Why is this? What's with the inherent stinginess?

Where did the GP say they're going to build a Duolingo clone?

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#39

Post by vinceguidry »

90s_dev wrote: post #8
godzillabrennus wrote: post #3

Their comments cemented to me that they have no long term value. If the ceo of Duolingo thinks AI will teach me a language then I’ll use a low cost LLM to get there without Duolingo.

I've noticed that a strong thread of the hacker community, including HN and the guys who wrote GNU and linux, are extremely cheap . Like, you'd rather write a product clone yourself than pay $15/month for the official product. Why is this? What's with the inherent stinginess?

Lol. Linus didn't pour decades of his life into Linux to save a buck. Neither did Stallman with GNU. Even if the alternatives at the time only cost $15, (hahahahahaha) free alternatives would still have been well worth making.

Software freedom has never been about money, and always been about preserving public access to a software commons. You might believe your local bookstore is a better source of knowledge than your local library, but that's only because you don't really know what you're missing.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#40

Post by lazide »

adocomplete wrote: post #36
lazide wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, or as many DIY’ers have figured out - ‘why would I buy that for $500 when I can spend $1500 and 3 weeks making it myself?’

Depends on if you learn something while making yourself. The lesson itself could be worth 10x the monetary spend (in a positive and negative way).

Well, and as I always told myself - it’s an investment in tools I’ll use again later, and eventually it’ll be cheaper to DIY myself.

Which, at the point I was welding together solar panel mounts onto shipping containers was true. But maybe i could have asked myself ‘should I’ instead of ‘can I’ somewhere earlier in the process hah.

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