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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#61

Post by SoftTalker »

mrcwinn wrote: post #22
deanc wrote: post #4

I’m not sure how I feel about this. I’m based in the Nordics and my estimated retirement age at the moment (where I can get my state pension) is 67y 4m. Whilst I understand the burden the aging population is having on society (lifespan) it doesn’t seem like there’s much proactive government input into people’s healthspan. Maybe instead we should try investing in this area (reducing the burden on services) instead of…

As an American, I’m often that countries like Denmark are in fact constantly investing in health and entitlements, and so everyone is healthier and happier. Is that not the case?

Denmark has a lot of social services, and commensurate taxes to support them. This is reaching a breaking point. You can't get more blood out of a body that has already been drained to near the point of death.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#62

Post by tossandthrow »

holsta wrote: post #45
tossandthrow wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness. the housing market in Denmark is approachable - you can get houses near major cities for usd 80k. Social security, you can go unemployed for years and still pay your bills. Government provided education with stipend - having masters degrees are common. And the economy is strong. Most Danes understand that this is inevitable - the big issue is that the politicians have given themselves more favorable…

> you can get houses near major cities for usd 80k. There are 53706 homes for sale today. 2784 of those are actual homes, not empty lots, costing less than 600K DKK. I would not expect to live a healthy, comfortable life in most homes at that price range. Draft, mold, poor insulation and high energy bills.

I don't hope I expressed that you can check in on 6 stars with a concierge for 80k?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#63

Post by deanc »

mrcwinn wrote: post #22
deanc wrote: post #4

I’m not sure how I feel about this. I’m based in the Nordics and my estimated retirement age at the moment (where I can get my state pension) is 67y 4m. Whilst I understand the burden the aging population is having on society (lifespan) it doesn’t seem like there’s much proactive government input into people’s healthspan. Maybe instead we should try investing in this area (reducing the burden on services) instead of…

As an American, I’m often that countries like Denmark are in fact constantly investing in health and entitlements, and so everyone is healthier and happier. Is that not the case?

In my part of the Nordics (Finland) they are cutting investment and sending people to private institutions. In rural areas private providers have entirely replaced public sector healthcare centers. This is seen as quite controversial across the board.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#64

Post by tossandthrow »

dyauspitr wrote: post #54
tossandthrow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

4. Stop spending 90% of healthcare costs on 5% of chronic problem beneficiaries.

That is increasing tax.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#65

Post by spacebanana7 »

tossandthrow wrote: post #34
lostlogin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 has some options. Increase the number of (young) immigrants. Increase the birthrate (has anywhere managed this?).

Birthrates are problematic as it usually take 20 to 25 years before they pay taxes. And in that time they require a lot of expenses. They talk abiut the squeeze, if Birthrates increase too suddenly - workers would both have to pay for the elderly and the kids.

This is the real demographic death trap, and why Taiwan and South Korea are probably past the point of no return.

If one generation has a fertility rate of 1 child per woman, the next must have 4 children per woman to undo the demographic change.

The people in the “corrective” generation must support their own two elderly parents plus four of their own children. It becomes practically impossible.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#66

Post by [deleted] »

constantcrying wrote: post #28
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

No. It is about how the system is funded. If pensions were funded by actual retirement accounts, where employees invested money into some state fund and have it paid out for retirement this would be entirely unproblematic. But the pension system in many EU countries is set up in a way in which tax contributions now finance pensions now . This can only work with a steadily growing economy which continually generates m…

[deleted]

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#67

Post by spacebanana7 »

simianwords wrote: post #25
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

why not because of increased life expectancy?

That actually makes the problem worse unless retirement ages tick up at the same rate.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#68

Post by lazyasciiart »

spacebanana7 wrote: post #53
lostlogin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 has some options. Increase the number of (young) immigrants. Increase the birthrate (has anywhere managed this?).

Israel is the only developed country which has a sustained positive fertility rate.

But that’s not an example of a solution - the birth rate is driven by orthodox citizens who don’t participate in mainstream society, so they aren’t going to pay taxes or care for the elderly (outside their own family).

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#69

Post by vintermann »

zeroCalories wrote: post #18
deanc wrote: post #4

I’m not sure how I feel about this. I’m based in the Nordics and my estimated retirement age at the moment (where I can get my state pension) is 67y 4m. Whilst I understand the burden the aging population is having on society (lifespan) it doesn’t seem like there’s much proactive government input into people’s healthspan. Maybe instead we should try investing in this area (reducing the burden on services) instead of…

Economically, old people are a burden on society. If you want to have a long and easy retirement for your elderly, you need a growing population, forever. Like a ponzi scheme. The alternative is that you break young people's back by burdening them with providing for the elderly. No amount of redistribution will help a country with poor productivity. 60 was a reasonable retirement age years ago, because most people wo…

> Economically, old people are a burden on society

Only if they are poor. If they're rich, they can continue "producing wealth" from interest and investments even after they're dead.

It's a silly thing to say, of course, but it's built into most people's assumptions who are discussing it.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#70

Post by WinstonSmith84 »

tossandthrow wrote: post #11
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

Typically EU countries implement the 3 options together - option 1. btw is meant to make the pension irrelevant. It can't happen from one day to the next, but there is a shift happening where people contribute more and more towards private pension funds. It's easy to see that at some point, there will be the equivalent of the US 401K in Europe.
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