Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 140 posts

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#91

Post by roncesvalles »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #34

Depends on what you want to do. But my 2 cents are that like all new technology, LLMs will become a commodity. Which means that everybody uses them but few people are able to develop them from scratch. It's not different from other things like databases, GPU drivers, 3D engines for games, etc. That all involves a lot of hardcore computer science and math. But lots of people use these things without being hindered by…

>It's not different from other things like databases, GPU drivers, 3D engines for games, etc.

Not quite the same. E.g. databases are a part of the system itself. It's actually pretty helpful for a SWE to understand them reasonably deeply, especially when they're so leaky as an abstraction (arguably, even the more nuanced characteristics of your database of choice will influence the design of your whole application). AI/LLMs are more like dev tooling. You don't really need to know how a text editor, compiler or IDE works.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#92

Post by YseGuy74000 »

To be realistic and in the know, accoring to development, we are still 50 years to stable LLMs.

Data Drift. Over the course of a few moNths the data deteriorates and the LLM ceases to function in a worthwhile manner.

Currently most LLMs are based upon the core preMise that people should not believe anythiNg. This is tokenized aBove everythiNg else. Then there are other erroneous tokenizations. Why these are not fully documented, people use these tools. You should know what you are getting.

Tokenization. Different words are tokenized to have a higher value than other words or configurations.

So, these are the dangers that everyone has ignored. It makes it an unethical tool because it is based upon someone's erroneous views. Honesty is the best policy. If it cant be honest, how can you trust it?

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#93

Post by Nullabillity »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #35

> Is this another bubble that might burst I see this a lot, but I think it's irrelevant. Even if this is a bubble, and even if (when?) it bursts, the underlying tech is not going anywhere. Just like the last dotcom bubble gave us FAANG+, so will this give us the next letters. Sure, agentsdotcom or flowsdotcom or ragdotcom might fail (likely IMO), but the stack is here to stay, and it's only gonna get better, cheaper,…

This is just survivorship bias speaking. Some bubbles have a useful core somewhere, but that doesn't mean that every (or even most) bubble does.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#94

Post by wmeredith »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #35

> Is this another bubble that might burst I see this a lot, but I think it's irrelevant. Even if this is a bubble, and even if (when?) it bursts, the underlying tech is not going anywhere. Just like the last dotcom bubble gave us FAANG+, so will this give us the next letters. Sure, agentsdotcom or flowsdotcom or ragdotcom might fail (likely IMO), but the stack is here to stay, and it's only gonna get better, cheaper,…

This is the most reasonable stance, and I see a lot of smart people take it. The bubble will burst and some winners will remain. Those companies will make bank because the tools are useful to those that know how to use them effectively will excel.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#95

Post by amelius »

zwnow wrote: post #86
amelius wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question is what mindset will allow you to put yourself ahead of the rest. Because I suppose the OP doesn't want to end up as just another mediocre programmer.

Every programmer really is just mediocre. There is no perfect software yet. Hence people who built it are mediocre.

Well, in any case, llms are certainly not perfect.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#96

Post by sampullman »

zwnow wrote: post #86
amelius wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question is what mindset will allow you to put yourself ahead of the rest. Because I suppose the OP doesn't want to end up as just another mediocre programmer.

Every programmer really is just mediocre. There is no perfect software yet. Hence people who built it are mediocre.

I've met one or two great programmers. But perfect software that solves a significant problem can't usually be built by one person, so it's rare.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#97

Post by eric-burel »

qsort wrote: post #64
eric-burel wrote: post #58

Hi, I am working in making the term "llm developer" more popular in France and train people to this new job. We will need a bunch of them in the months/years to come to implement advanced AI systems after companies manage to properly pick and set up their AI platforms. Currently people would tend to involve data scientists into this job, but data scientists are often less versed into the software engineering aspect,…

Isn't this what originally data engineers were supposed to be? I get that the role has probably become "clicks buttons in the Azure GUI", but the "good" ones are basically backend developers that specialize on data stacks. The data scientist roles have had a similar drift in my experience. They used to be "statistician who can code" or "developer who knows some stats", what we got is "clicks buttons in the Azure GUI"…

I guess for the "backend" part it may be true, but there is a new "frontend" skillset of being able to actually implement a complex agentic workflow, and put that into a functioning product, which can be a lot of code. So closer to web dev in the end. I have nothing against button clicking if it does work, as it may be a sign of maturity for a technical field. I click on a button in my car and turn a wheel and it usually go where I want, feels great. The equivalent would be the Microsoft ecosystem here.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#98

Post by xiphias2 »

fmbb wrote: post #16
xiphias2 wrote: post #6

It's your choice, but it's definitely not ,,just another tool''. Most of my LLMs made lots of mistakes, but Codex with $200 subscription changed my workflow totally, and now I'm having 40 pull requests/day merged. Treat LLMs as interns, increase your test coverage with them to the point that they can't ruin your codebase and get really good at reviewing code and splitting tasks up to smaller digestible ones, and prom…

Can you share your source?

Sure, it's an open source reactive web framework, the pull requests are public. I want to announce it here on HN soon, I just still have a few serious bugs to fix:

https://github.com/adamritter/pageql

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#99

Post by fendy3002 »

Nullabillity wrote: post #93
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #35

> Is this another bubble that might burst I see this a lot, but I think it's irrelevant. Even if this is a bubble, and even if (when?) it bursts, the underlying tech is not going anywhere. Just like the last dotcom bubble gave us FAANG+, so will this give us the next letters. Sure, agentsdotcom or flowsdotcom or ragdotcom might fail (likely IMO), but the stack is here to stay, and it's only gonna get better, cheaper,…

This is just survivorship bias speaking. Some bubbles have a useful core somewhere, but that doesn't mean that every (or even most) bubble does.

agree on this point, like web3 and blockchain is not essential as of today (CMIIW).

However not in the case of AI (agentic AI / LLM), because simply they already have a use case, and a valid one. Contextual query and document searching / knowledge digging will be there to stay, either in form of current agentic model or different one.

Re: Ask HN: Go deep into AI/LLMs or just use them as tools?

#100

Post by cced »

diggan wrote: post #78
mindcrime wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in the worst case scenario we wind up with basically nobody having jobs. I mean, when humanoid robots get sufficient dexterity, they can even come for the skilled trades folks as well, as far as that goes. Look, I don't know if any of this is actually going to to come to pass or not. But it seems at least a little bit less like pure sci-fi now than it did a decade or two ago. Anyway, if we play along with the th…

> in the worst case scenario we wind up with basically nobody having jobs Call me optimistic or whatever, but isn't that the best case scenario? If having a full-time job is basically just for the 0.1% or whatever, then we must have figured out a different way of distributing goods and solving peoples needs, that doesn't involve "trading time for money" (a job), and that sounds like it can be a good thing, not "worst…

We live in a system the prioritizes profits over everything.

> Call me optimistic or whatever, but isn't that the best case scenario?

The gains of technology are mostly captured by those with capital, not those with labor. Look at wage growth over the last few decades as well as productivity growth to have confirmation.

There’s no reason to believe given the current trend that benefits will be evenly distributed to the 99-97% of wage earners.

Post reply on HN