Live data from Hacker News

How to live on $432 a month in America

shagbark.substack.com

411–420 of 764 posts

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#411

> any American could live an earlier iteration of the American Dream If (and only if) you aren't socially different from the communities you'd be moving to. Being gay or trans, for instance, might mark you out as a target in a lot of the places where you could live this cheaply. Plenty of race, religions, or political beliefs that would make it untenable. It's hard to claim that any American can achieve this.

I would argue is that what we need for healing and understanding is more brave trans and gay people in these spaces. It's a lot harder to hate a group when your kind neighbor is one of them. Debate and rational arguments dont actually convince most humans. Kindness without the expectation of anything in return and possibly even hate does.

> It's a lot harder to hate a group when your kind neighbor is one of them.

"He/she is one of the good ones..." is a fairly common turn of phrase.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#412
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are they going to go if the birth is complicated? Just bleed out on the floor of their hut?

«My wife took down and died upon the cabin floor / And I ain't got no home in this world anymore» https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUgzXJACXzs

Even more recently: https://genius.com/Phil-collins-the-roof-is-leaking-lyrics

"My wife's expecting, but I hope she can wait. 'Cause this winter looks like it's gonna be another bad one"

"The roof is leaking and the wind is howling, Kids are crying 'cause the sheets are so cold. Woke this morning, found my hands were frozen, I've tried to fix the fire, but you know, the damn thing's too old."

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#413
post #245
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted, this was 20 years ago, but I remember taking the Greyhound and people were getting on or off the bus in the middle of nowhere. By nowhere, I mean the nowhere in the literal sense: at the intersection of two highways in the northern Ontario with no other development in sight. Of course, they also serviced the other types of nowhere: the lone gas station or the tiny village. The author is being somewhat mislea…

I agree that the bus in the scenario is implausible for most. But in real life, most rural people would simply own a car. The author describes car ownership's costs hyperbolically, but unless you're doing long-distance commuting, driving a $5000 car wouldn't add more than $200 to his monthly budget, which wouldn't change the math dramatically, while I'd argue it would improve quality of life tremendously, especially…

[deleted]

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#414
post #245
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted, this was 20 years ago, but I remember taking the Greyhound and people were getting on or off the bus in the middle of nowhere. By nowhere, I mean the nowhere in the literal sense: at the intersection of two highways in the northern Ontario with no other development in sight. Of course, they also serviced the other types of nowhere: the lone gas station or the tiny village. The author is being somewhat mislea…

I agree that the bus in the scenario is implausible for most. But in real life, most rural people would simply own a car. The author describes car ownership's costs hyperbolically, but unless you're doing long-distance commuting, driving a $5000 car wouldn't add more than $200 to his monthly budget, which wouldn't change the math dramatically, while I'd argue it would improve quality of life tremendously, especially…

A $200 cost is a nearly 50% increase to the budget.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#415
post #399
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be pretty good for the group of newcomers! They all buy together at lowish prices, then prices go up enough that they ~make their money back on housing appreciation. And it's not bad for existing homeowners either, since they get the appreciation too.

Or you could just invest the difference in your stock portfolio and institute a land value tax instead. Stock are more a lot more liquid than real estate and less risky as well. Whereas the value of a home is pretty much stuck in the property until you convert it to liquid cash by selling it, but then you need to move elsewhere.

Indeed you could either go through the arduous task of convincing your friends to move somewhere with you or just get enough political support for a land value tax instead. No brainer to go for the tax. Way easier to achieve.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#416
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

The network effects/moats of places! There needs to be a Kickstarter for coordinating groups of people to move to the same place all at the same time.

It was pretty easy for me. We got enough friends to move to one neighborhood of SF. Once you get a few, the numbers start going up and the gravity of the network draws more.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#417
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

Professionals move from city to city all the time due to jobs. In the modern world it's easier to keep in touch with family and friends with Internet and cheap (by historical standards) flights.

That's using a mighty broad brush to paint folks' circumstantial situations.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#419
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once it gets cold you won't be walking much anywhere. I guess grocery delivery from Walmart can mitigate this, but that fundamentally changes the situation.

Why not? You can walk plenty in the cold with the right equipment. I walked 2+ km a day at the south pole ...

What are you buying this equipment with in this scenario?

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#420
I've been thinking a lot about this in my personal context. I'm not super wealthy and thinking about the inevitable moment when I will work less and need to live on what I've scraped together by then. I currently live in Berlin in a gentrified area which is nice to be in but also getting more expensive rapidly. It's convenient for me to be here. But I wouldn't mind being in a much cheaper place otherwise.

I see a few technical trends that would enable me to live quite far away from Berlin mid term that could be a lot more affordable.

- Starlink provides good enough internet pretty much anywhere. Rural Germany is famous for its lack of connectivity. I could live anywhere in Germany and have a decent connectivity and be able to work remotely. Complete science fiction until recently. But now feasible. I expect there will be competitors in a few years.

- Improved modes of transport to remote locations via autonomous driving electrical cars, mini buses, drones etc. could unlock rural destinations. Electrical means cost per mile/km is expressed in kwh. About 2-4 km/kwh. Autonomous means there is no driver to pay or tiring driving to do. Even at Germany's high-ish grid prices, a 50 km commute becomes quite affordable (a cup of coffee worth of energy). And you can take a nap, relax, or work while you move and be quite comfortable while being moved. There are a lot of affordable housing options starting from about 10km away from where I currently live. 50km, we are talking rural Brandenburg which has depopulated significantly since the fall of the wall. Ghost villages, lack of employment, etc. I know several people that moved to the edge of Berlin or beyond and have a great standard of living there.

- Tiny/prefab housing means the current cost of constructing houses is increasingly complete bullshit. I don't need a artisanally crafted house at great expense. I just need a small amount of space that is comfortable. That shouldn't cost me north of half a million and put me in debt for decades. And modern materials means such a place could be well insulated and relatively cheap to heat.

- Low cost, renewable energy is starting to dominate. Germany has really high energy prices. But it's investing to fix that. Those investments might pay off in a few decades and lower the cost of energy. That's good news if I'm heating with a heatpump, and am being moved around electrically.

So, I need some land reasonably close to where the action is (Berlin in my case) but not in the middle of it. An affordable & comfortable way to get to Berlin when I need to. And some housing that won't break the bank. I think all of those are well in reach for well below 100K and next to nothing in monthly cost. All I need is some kwh of power and water. And the usual insurances, taxes, and what not. And food, which I might even grow some myself if I had enough room for a garden. And being far away from all the hipster areas in Berlin, probably means local shops are going to be relatively cheap.

Of course this being Germany, the obstacle to this is going to be immense bureaucratic inertia. You can't just plonk down a tiny house anywhere you want. There are rules! Designed to frustrate anything entirely reasonable like that.

But I imagine similar things are going to be true everywhere and there is going to be fierce competition between depopulated regions to attract people and their money. And when push comes to shove, I'm not German and could be persuaded to move elsewhere. Also, if you extrapolate to autonomous RVs, you could just live in those and let them drive you to some remote parking space at night and to charging and water points for access to the essentials. Be in nature when you want to be, drive up to a city when you need to. Move south in the winter, north in the summer, etc.

Post reply on HN