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How to live on $432 a month in America

shagbark.substack.com

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Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#371
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

That's the other unspoken side of the boomer-emulation argument, too. People's access to the world when boomers were buying houses and raising families was much less. Their families and friends were already close because few, if any, of them left where they were from (except to get drafted into wars). In some of those who left, they did so to enable the rest to follow. These things just don't happen anymore. To find…

> Their families and friends were already close because few, if any, of them left where they were from (except to get drafted into wars)

Your original text, edited for sequence and clarity while preserving your voice:

This doesn’t apply to the U.S. or Canada, nor has it ever since their foundings, possibly excepting some natives. The American frontier was declared closed by 1890, long before the post-WW2 population surge to California. Before that, New Englanders left farmland to settle the Midwest. Later came the Great Migration of mostly Black Southerners to northern cities. Anglophone North America has never been a peasant society where families remained rooted for generations.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#372
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, perhaps a curious administrator can share the data but I really suspect just through sheer numbers most people on this forum do not live in the bay area. The NYC metro area is 23 million [1] which is about 7% of the country (23/300). There's a good chance somebody who works in NYC grew up nearby. That said, if you chase fortune and fame for a decade and then retire to Minnesota you still come out ahead... Even if…

People aren’t simply moving into the city locally the numbers just don’t work. The demographics of NYC require and support the idea of a huge and constant flux of people from distant areas moving into and out of the city which matches people’s observations. Even the gender divide is abnormal, the largest age group is 25-29 for women and 30-34 for men despite more men being born vs women living longer. https://en.wiki…

The metro area, not the city. That extends into New Jersey and Connecticut.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#373

I think the author is arguing against their own point with the illustration they chose. The very last picture can be found in the Wikipedia page for the Homestead Act and, two jumps later, one can find themselves in the Dutch version of "Sod house" [1] which has this to say: > The living conditions there were miserable. Due to the construction method, the room was difficult to heat, it was damp and teeming with vermi…

The point could be taken in the other way, as in "hey at least you don't have to live in a house made of dirt, right?" Comparably you are much better off, so there is no point in complaining. They made it work. Sure it wasn't great, but we're all passed that now, standards are much better.

Adobe (dried mud) homes in Santa Fe go for well north of a million dollars US. I’ll take a couple of those myself.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, leaving everyone behind and not seeing them again was kind of what people did in the great grandfather era mentioned in the article. Even not that long ago. I was talking to someone only perhaps grandma age the other day who said their brother's family moved to BC and they didn't see them for 25 years. Your comment does focus in on the interesting point in that connected places have perhaps not scaled as…

> what people did in the great grandfather era Unfortunately the appeal to ancestry fallacy is always a terrible idea. You see this in the nutrition space where “influencers” go on and on about how our ancestors ate, forgetting that our ancestors died extremely early relative to modern humans. Similarly, our grandparents lived pretty terrible lives in many ways. The reason to complain about the high cost of living is…

When I look at some of my favourite writers, philosophers, and scientists from past eras quite a few of them died in their 60s and 70s. Medicine and nutrition was poorly understood for that time. What they had in common was wealth and professions that wasn’t backbreaking labor. Child mortality was high and that is what really drags the average age down.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural living also looks cheaper because most people do not even remotely consider the costs of transportation. The IRS estimates per-mile deduction at well over 60 cents per mile. If you have to drive 15 miles to the grocery store and back, your grocery bill goes up $18/trip. If you need to drive 15 miles to work and back, take $90/week out of your paycheck. Then there's the fact that whoever is The Employer in that…

Wait wait, how much does fuel cost that a 50km trip is $18? Even my diesel car does that for 4 €.

The IRS is also presumably factoring in increased wear and tear on the vehicle and increased insurance costs.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#376
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the value of the place would go up fast. This is one way gentrification happens.

That seems to be pretty good for the group of newcomers! They all buy together at lowish prices, then prices go up enough that they ~make their money back on housing appreciation. And it's not bad for existing homeowners either, since they get the appreciation too.

Is someone Penny pinching $400/month really going to have the funds necessary to flip housing?

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s your point? All of the things I listed have far outpaced income and disposable income.

"disposable" income means "subtracting necessities like housing" so if disposable income is going up, by definition your claim cannot be correct

Officially, disposable income means income minus taxes. Lots of people assume it means minus necessities like housing and food, but that is discretionary income.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#379
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

Any discussion of staying near family and friends on a forum predominated by startups out of the bay area is completely disingenuous. But that aside, I suggest this is front page and meaningful not because it brings up a third option (to stay home, move to a city, or move to rural NY), but instead because it advocates accidentally for just staying home . Your family probably already lives in an area that is more affo…

Not everyone has a home to go to. Broken families, dead families, there may no longer be room at a home, etc. Everyone's circumstances are different.

And honestly, based on some cultures, home isn't free either. The moment I got back home, I was given a few months to find work, but had to pay rent in 3 months no matter what. I was doing temp work for one month while interviews finished

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#380
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is wood free? To heat even a tiny home purpose-built for high efficiency you'd need several acres of woods to sustainably harvest. For a falling-apart $30k hovel in upstate NY you'd probably need more like 15 acres, and you don't get a 15-acre stand of woods in the deal for that price.

15 acres? It should take far less than an acre. The house isn't well insulated, but it's also small. A few big trees, say 40-year Sitka spruce, should last the whole winter, and you can plant a thousand of those on an acre. Of course it depends on the land and the house. But here's some Reddit comments also estimating the need at https://www.reddit.com/r/homestead/comments/1jnpbug/how_much...

Perhaps you will be surprised by the lack of Sitka spruce in St. Lawrence County, NY. I think you are significantly overstating the volume of timber that can be harvested from that kind of forest.
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