Live data from Hacker News

How to live on $432 a month in America

shagbark.substack.com

351–360 of 764 posts

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median disposable household income is higher in the US than anywhere else in the world [0]. Real median personal income has increased 50% since the 1970s [1]. 0. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per... 1. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/globalization-did-not-hollow-o...

What’s your point? All of the things I listed have far outpaced income and disposable income.

"disposable" income means "subtracting necessities like housing" so if disposable income is going up, by definition your claim cannot be correct

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#352
post #169

> any American could live an earlier iteration of the American Dream If (and only if) you aren't socially different from the communities you'd be moving to. Being gay or trans, for instance, might mark you out as a target in a lot of the places where you could live this cheaply. Plenty of race, religions, or political beliefs that would make it untenable. It's hard to claim that any American can achieve this.

Maybe you have more direct experience with this than I do, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't follow the lifestyle the author describes, but I do live in an economically and culturally comparable town in Vermont that's much smaller than Massena. The town is full of gay and lesbian couples, and it really doesn't seem to be an issue. The few racial minorities seem to be well accepted. Religion is a surprisingly small fa…

Yeah as a trans woman who lived in Vermont for awhile this lines up with my experience. The worst bigotry I encountered was teenagers calling me the f-slur, which is like fine, whatever. I think people dont have a sense of just how massive America is and how different states are culturally.

Honestly it still sucked to be trans in Vermont, it's extremely isolating especially if you dont have a car or live in Burlington/Brattleboro. The reason why so many queer people move to cities is that cities are really the only place queer people can have a semi-normal social life, and not because they're fleeing Westboro Baptist Church style bigotry

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, perhaps a curious administrator can share the data but I really suspect just through sheer numbers most people on this forum do not live in the bay area. The NYC metro area is 23 million [1] which is about 7% of the country (23/300). There's a good chance somebody who works in NYC grew up nearby. That said, if you chase fortune and fame for a decade and then retire to Minnesota you still come out ahead... Even if…

>> if you chase fortune and fame for a decade and then retire to Minnesota you still come out ahead And the locals start to hate you for buying up land and generally raising prices enough that working folk are squeezed out of the market. Some areas are starting to enact laws to prevent productive farmland becoming condos and hobby farms for retiring city people.

Not in MN. Nobody is moving here to retire. And there’s plenty of rural land to go around.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#354
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say, at this income level you're on Medicaid. It would be more than nothing but very basic, and if you're using government assistance than you aren't really "escaping" modernity, you're actually living off of the economic surplus of all the people working hard in the rat race. (Don't misinterpret me as saying that social safety nets are bad, I am all for them, but I'm just saying - if the author of this articl…

I think most of your points are fair ones. I also feel that it's rather cynical to drop out of the "rat race" by relying on the participation of lots of other people to pay for your Medicaid expense and so on. However, on average, there are just so few people doing this type of thing that I don't think we have to worry about free riders damaging the system. Most people who complain about the rat race aren't willing t…

The author mentions putting 20% down and getting a mortgage. Even with insurance, for a 10 year mortgage 29k is 430 per month. Or you live with your parents and save on $1500 rent for 2 years, bam you can buy it with cash.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#355
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

Rural living also looks cheaper because most people do not even remotely consider the costs of transportation. The IRS estimates per-mile deduction at well over 60 cents per mile. If you have to drive 15 miles to the grocery store and back, your grocery bill goes up $18/trip. If you need to drive 15 miles to work and back, take $90/week out of your paycheck. Then there's the fact that whoever is The Employer in that…

I also noticed the author's budget did not include health insurance.

I also wonder how close it is to the nearest hospital or urgent care.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, leaving everyone behind and not seeing them again was kind of what people did in the great grandfather era mentioned in the article. Even not that long ago. I was talking to someone only perhaps grandma age the other day who said their brother's family moved to BC and they didn't see them for 25 years. Your comment does focus in on the interesting point in that connected places have perhaps not scaled as…

> what people did in the great grandfather era Unfortunately the appeal to ancestry fallacy is always a terrible idea. You see this in the nutrition space where “influencers” go on and on about how our ancestors ate, forgetting that our ancestors died extremely early relative to modern humans. Similarly, our grandparents lived pretty terrible lives in many ways. The reason to complain about the high cost of living is…

>our ancestors died extremely early

No they didn't, stop using averages.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently visited New York City for the first time and honestly wasn't impressed. Outside of a few neat things like visiting the cronut place, I could do nearly everything the same back home. The bagel places were indeed good, but not noticeably different than the hipster bagel places in my city. Wood fired pizza was good at several places, but again...none were noticeably different than the wood fired oven fancy pl…

Sure, medium cities that aren’t shitty and still have some vibrancy are a solid middle ground. Bonus points for being somewhere close to nice natural areas or outdoor recreation. But I grew up in a town of less than 5k in the Midwest. The nearest cities and towns were all less than 50k population. Rent is, of course, incredibly low. There are even dozens of small universities in the area. The nearest city of 100k plu…

This is my thesis about the size of where you live. There are three types of people:

1. People who like the mega cities/metastacities. They genuinely enjoy the idea that they could never “fit into their head” the city in which they live. It’s just too big. You can never possibly exhaust all the possibilities, much less keep up with all of the changes. They can be intensely loyal to their abstract city, abstract because they can never physically/socially experience the entire city, so it mostly exists only in their head. But the endless horizon of that abstract city is where they really live, and why they like it so much. Never boring…of course neither is a war zone.

2. Smaller right-sized cities, defined as cities/regions that you can just about fit into your head. Big enough that they are rarely boring, especially if you take advantage of the third dimension of time/local history. But small enough that you can experience the coziness and stability of fully living in that one space…in other words, a home.

3. Smaller towns of which you can exhaust the possibilities in just a few years. If you grok the place, it is supremely cozy, and you can deepen the sense of that by raising a family and becoming (an old phrase) a pillar of the community. You go deep socially instead of craning your neck across an endlessly broad horizon. You also have the third dimension of time/local history. And you have the additional option of defining your location not just as the small town, but rather a whole surrounding region as your actual home. For Americans this is easily an area of 60-100 miles/100-160 km radius, given our love affair with the automobile. That regional view then gets you into the second level of a small city, enough stimulation so it’s rarely boring.

And there’s always cyberspace. The small town life isn’t so extremely different when that part that is online is so similar for everyone, big city or small town.

For extremely different, try 19th Century Western life, or 20th Century non-Western life.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#358
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

The problem is that its across an international border from the Montreal airport. So you'd need to cross a border twice to fly to a domestic US destination and twice more on your return. Crossing a border is always an unknown in terms of delays, so I question the practicality. I'd personally feel like I needed to leave way more than 90 minutes to ge to the airport. FWIW, I've crossed the border at both Cornwall and O…

Oddly enough, I always spend more time crossing into Canada than the US at Ogdensburg, even though I’m a Canadian citizen and travelling on a Canadian passport. Had my car searched last time. As always, your mileage may vary.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s your point? All of the things I listed have far outpaced income and disposable income.

"disposable" income means "subtracting necessities like housing" so if disposable income is going up, by definition your claim cannot be correct

That's not correct.

From the article:

> Note that this includes taxes and transfers, including in-kind transfers like government-provided health care.

So excluding housing, health insurance and student loan repayments etc.

Post reply on HN