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How to live on $432 a month in America

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Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#311

Post by cjbarber »

xp84 wrote: post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

The network effects/moats of places! There needs to be a Kickstarter for coordinating groups of people to move to the same place all at the same time.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#312

Post by nkrisc »

fullStackOasis wrote: post #216
dangus wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say, at this income level you're on Medicaid. It would be more than nothing but very basic, and if you're using government assistance than you aren't really "escaping" modernity, you're actually living off of the economic surplus of all the people working hard in the rat race. (Don't misinterpret me as saying that social safety nets are bad, I am all for them, but I'm just saying - if the author of this articl…

I think most of your points are fair ones. I also feel that it's rather cynical to drop out of the "rat race" by relying on the participation of lots of other people to pay for your Medicaid expense and so on. However, on average, there are just so few people doing this type of thing that I don't think we have to worry about free riders damaging the system. Most people who complain about the rat race aren't willing t…

> I think most of your points are fair ones. I also feel that it's rather cynical to drop out of the "rat race" by relying on the participation of lots of other people to pay for your Medicaid expense and so on. However, on average, there are just so few people doing this type of thing that I don't think we have to worry about free riders damaging the system.

It's one of those cases where the "freeloading" is more miserable than just working, which is why abuse isn't rampant.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#313

Post by II2II »

prmoustache wrote: post #259
xp84 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the bus in the scenario is implausible for most. But in real life, most rural people would simply own a car. The author describes car ownership's costs hyperbolically, but unless you're doing long-distance commuting, driving a $5000 car wouldn't add more than $200 to his monthly budget, which wouldn't change the math dramatically, while I'd argue it would improve quality of life tremendously, especially…

What about cycling? If amishes are fine leaving there with horse carts as vehicles, there is no reason you can't manage using a bicycle. Even Ottawa is not out of reach at only 80miles.

That would depend upon the roads and, given that winter was mentioned as a feature, maintenance during the winter months.

I've done some riding on rural roads with no shoulders, and it can be as scary as heck. At least on winding roads in wooded areas. That's from the perspective of someone who is fine riding on fast and busy urban roads during all seasons. Winter maintenance is also a huge issue if you are riding to work. If you're doing seasonal work, that's fine. You just wait until everything is plowed for winter forays. If you're working all seasons, you cannot maintain a job when you cannot reliably reach the job site.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#314

Post by RajT88 »

cjbarber wrote: post #311
xp84 wrote: post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

The network effects/moats of places! There needs to be a Kickstarter for coordinating groups of people to move to the same place all at the same time.

Good luck getting people to agree not to compete for the best cheap houses.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#315

Post by sandworm101 »

fullStackOasis wrote: post #199
TrackerFF wrote: post #134

I looked through those numbers, and immediately thought to myself - hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. FWIW, I grew up in rural nowhere (population 150, nearest town 45 miles away) - and I honestly don't know how anyone can live out in the boonies without a car. Taking the bus that goes 3 times a day is one thing, needing to move stuff is another thing. I mean…

> hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. That's the first thing I thought about. His budget of $432/mo doesn't include health insurance. But $5K/y probably gets him Medicaid eligibility. Let's assume he's on Medicaid, then. In NY state, that covers quite a lot of dental care, if you believe this: https://www.health.ny.gov/health_care/medicaid/program/denta... Not…

>> But $5K/y probably gets him Medicaid eligibility. Let's assume he's on Medicaid, then.

If he is on medicaid then he isn't "living" on 432/month. That would be living on 432/month PLUS whatever medicaid is worth, likely well north of another 500/month.

Then the kids need schooling, either in-person or remote. that is another 10k/year/kid. And you need some sort of local police/justice system to ensure nobody boots you off your homestead. But even once you account for all those local costs, there are things like national security. Living a peaceful life on a remote farm is only possible because the country is ringed by police and armed forces. Those things may be a thousand miles away, but someone still has to pay for them.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#316

Post by dmurray »

jeffbee wrote: post #74
jocaal wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article he mentions there is a well at the house. Also blankets and wood fires are free heat.

In what way is wood free? To heat even a tiny home purpose-built for high efficiency you'd need several acres of woods to sustainably harvest. For a falling-apart $30k hovel in upstate NY you'd probably need more like 15 acres, and you don't get a 15-acre stand of woods in the deal for that price.

15 acres? It should take far less than an acre. The house isn't well insulated, but it's also small. A few big trees, say 40-year Sitka spruce, should last the whole winter, and you can plant a thousand of those on an acre.

Of course it depends on the land and the house. But here's some Reddit comments also estimating the need at https://www.reddit.com/r/homestead/comments/1jnpbug/how_much...

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#317

Post by cozzyd »

Aeolun wrote: post #284
999900000999 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really dangerous if you don't know what your doing. I'm about .5 km from the closest supermarket. If it's snowing or just cold out I'm still ordering food. If I'm mildly sick, ordering food. I'm going to guess that you're a really good shape that a 2 km walk isn't a big deal, but I don't think most Americans can do that.

0.5km is like, 6 minutes of walking? How? It just doesn’t compute to me that someone would ever see that as onerous.

Surely you walk that much inside any reasonably sized grocery store.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#318

Post by fifilura »

8bitsrule wrote: post #257
fullStackOasis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. That's the first thing I thought about. His budget of $432/mo doesn't include health insurance. But $5K/y probably gets him Medicaid eligibility. Let's assume he's on Medicaid, then. In NY state, that covers quite a lot of dental care, if you believe this: https://www.health.ny.gov/health_care/medicaid/program/denta... Not…

Yep, it could work for some. And I think that's his point. Depending on how much meatspace socializing / culture one wants/needs. Library internet, meh ... but working 3 more hours at Stewart's would take care of that ... and access to a hyuge amount of entertainment, news, online spaces. Readers, writers, painters, DIYers. At $0.04 per kWh, keeping a small room warm in the winter is trivial ... could be worse!

> but working 3 more hours at Stewart's

And working 5 more hours would get him a some better garden tools, and 20 more he could support a family of 3 And if he just got a higher paying job, he could even get a car!

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#319

Post by RajT88 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #134

I looked through those numbers, and immediately thought to myself - hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. FWIW, I grew up in rural nowhere (population 150, nearest town 45 miles away) - and I honestly don't know how anyone can live out in the boonies without a car. Taking the bus that goes 3 times a day is one thing, needing to move stuff is another thing. I mean…

You read articles like this every so often, sure. Maybe ~13 years back I read about an indie game dev who lived in a carbon neutral home in the middle of nowhere Arizona or something. Beautiful house, hand built. Talked about how you really don't need all that much money to live - they were living on less than 20k a year from his game sales.

Him and his wife were also in their 20's, and their kids I think were already a few years old when they moved to the boonies. All healthy.

It's an extreme example, but this is a good read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#320

Post by bcraven »

999900000999 wrote: post #276
coolcase wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to guess that you're a really good shape that a 2 km walk isn't a big deal, but I don't think most Americans can do that. Shit that's horrifying. I have health issues and walking 2km a day to try to help fix. So I see 2km a day as basic. 6-10km run a day would be "fit" IMO. things as humans are designed to walk. Living in suburbia means I have to walk "for the sake of it" although I cam make it useful e.g…

77% percent of young Americans aren't fit for service. 2 km of walking in a day, even in great weather is exceptional for me. I probably average 1km or less. And I'm not a car owner. My family members will literally hop in a car and drive 30 minutes over walking .5 km to the grocery store. They like the other one more they say.

This is just utterly astonishing to me. I've just checked a map and it's ~0.5 km between where I park at work and my office!
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